Decal Issue since 2.1.0 REGRESSION

[Berklie]

What a wreck this 2.1 update has created.

Is anyone else noticing wildly different results amongst renders done before today's update (2.1) and any previous version? I'm opening a file I rendered just yesterday (2.0.2) with today's update (2.1,) and the results are completely different when I render it again with 2.1... same file, and the render is completely different with the 2.1 update.

Why should I have to research and adjust my historical file's long-standing Material properties so that 2.1 renders will look like every version rendered beforehand? I am supposed to edit every single past file, just to hope to get the same visual results with which I have been pleased in the past? Ridiculous.

This update is complete $#!@ when it comes to consistency of file rendering existing files with the same results past versions created. Just look at this attached example, which uses the same exact file to render... why on earth would 2.1 introduce rendering that won't render a consistent look with any version which rendered it before?

We're supposed to spend our time adjusting past files in 2.1, in the hopes they might render as they always have? 2.1 will cause me to lose more time by having to tweak past files. And... the exported GLBs look completely different as well. Really? Really?! 🤬

[Berklie]

And I found the bug which is causing this. I am going to call it "Decals on materials cause Roughness (and possibly other) settings to be ignored."

I'm to tired to write up everything, so here attached a screenshot of my Discord discourse about this.

Please contact me, @JMathews . Thank you.

[Cyril Dellenbach]

Hi,

To keep everyone updated on the subject, we currently have a fix working on our side! I still don't have an ETA, but the 2.1.1 should arrive soon.

Best regards,

[Cyril Dellenbach]

Hi @Berklie,

As soon as I saw your messages on Discord, I started running some test and unfortunately wasn't able to reproduce the issue.

With that being said, these tests weren't made in "real project conditions" and I'd love to have your 2.0.2 file (the beer barrel for example), so I can start investigating on a known problematic file. You can send it to my personal e-mail: cdellenbach@adobe.com

I totally get the frustration and I hope we'll quickly find the reason of this issue.

Best regards,

[Berklie]

Good morning, Cyril!

I've just sent you an email including the below:

• Version info: macOS, Steam, Stager
• Sample files: SSG, PNGs used
• Video: walking you through this very reproducible bug (in my case)

Fingers crossed on a fix. Thank you!

[Cyril Dellenbach]

Hi again @Berklie,

To keep you informed, we are trying many things with your project, but the Decal seems to be the problem indeed.

The weird thing is, if I'm creating a new project from scratch and import the same decal and the same mesh, the problem doesn't occur, it only appears with the specific file you sent me.

Therefore, you suggested this issue happened with some other files, would you mind to also send those to me? I'd also appreciate to get your logs (help > Get logs...).

Let me know,

[Berklie]

Files, logs, and new video demo'ing bug in other files have now been sent.

Thank you!

[Berklie]

Hello @Cyril Dellenbach,

Any updates on this breking change? Reminder: work is completely unable to be performed since this 2.1.0 update:

• 2.1.0 has had the bug
• Canot downgrade in any fashion under Steam

Thank you for your attention.

[Cyril Dellenbach]

Hi @Berklie,

The Decal issue is currently our priority, but fixing can take some time, and unfortunately I'm not able to give you an ETA.

With that being said, and as I notified you privately, we made the rollback to 2.0.2 possible on Steam, in order to give you a workaround while we're working on the problem. 

RMB on Stager 2023 > Properties... > Betas > Betas Participation > 2.0.2

Best regards,

[Berklie]

I would love an update @Cyril Dellenbach ... this is a breaking change for me, and my workflow has completely stopped. I'm not stating that I expect a fix instantly; however, were you able to reproduce the same behaviour with the second file that I sent (like you were able to reproduce with the first)? Knowing it's being diagnosed would be nice.

Thanks and have a great day!

[Cyril Dellenbach]

Hi again @Berklie,

Sorry for the delay in response, we ran a certain number of tests considering how specific the issue is. We faced the problem on all your shared projects, and honestly, that's the bothering thing. We weren't able to reproduce the bug with one of our projects.

Now, I've shared the assets to the dev team and they will have a deeper investigation (same thing for the "undeletable" material, but I'm less worried about this one).

As you already guessed, this process will take some time. In the meantime, you could try to recreate your scenes in new projects and see if it works. Considering how time consuming this will be for all your projects, I'd personally rollback for the previous Substance 3D Stager version (2.0.2). I know how frustrating it is, but I'll make sure to add a message to this thread as soon as I have a solution to give you.

Best regards,

[Berklie]

Great... thank you for the update, @Cyril Dellenbach!

Question: is there a link which you could share, that details how to rollback to 2.0.2 using Steam? I can't seem to get it done.

Thanks again... and here's to hoping the cause can be found and corrected!

[Cyril Dellenbach]

Hmmm 2.0.2 is not yet available in Substance 3D Stager 2023, but I've asked for a ETA. In the meantime, do you have access to Substance 3D Stager 2022?

Let me know,

[Berklie]

Hello @Cyril Dellenbach,

I'm not certain if you read my note... but, I use the Steam version and I do not see a way to downgrade from 2.1. (And I have been trying everything about which I can think.) This isue has really been hampering my work.

Can you either send me instructions on how to downgrade the Steam version (macOS)... or send me information on how to access Substance 3D Stager 2022, even if Adobe has to provide me with a trial copy (so that I can get work done).

Please let me know with which path above Adobe can help me, as I have been stuck with 2.1 and its issues since it launched (and I documented the bug).

Thank you!

[Berklie]

[SilviaGJ]

I have the same issue! I created this file a couple weeks ago, here's a before (opened/rendered with Stager 2.0.2), and after (done with Stager 2.1)...

Other than the very obvious issues with decals on materials, also colours, lights and shadows now render differently, on all files I'm opening.
I'm downgrading back to Stager 2.0.2 for the time being, but please @Cyril Dellenbach be aware this is an issue that needs to be fixed. People need to be able to keep consistency within their saved files. 

[SilviaGJ]

I did some renderings in Adobe Stager a few weeks ago; the rendered items had a felt fabric type material applied to them, and an image decal on top of the fabric. (Image is blurred due to licensing copyright)
Both the material and the decal had satisfying quality. 

I re-opened the same files today, to quickly edit and redo some renders, using the latest version of Stager. This is how the same items look like now : 

This is not acceptable, I need to be able to keep consistency within the same files. I have tried to fix the texture and decal in every way, but they still show like in the 2nd picture, as soon as I apply the decal image.
The file had no issues whatsoever last time it was saved and closed, I need to be able to open files and find them exactly how I left them.
Has anyone experienced the same issue, and/or a way to solve it? 
Thanks in advance!

[Cyril Dellenbach]

Hi @SilviaGJ,

This is indeed a very problematic regression.

As you already saw on this thread (which I'm merging this discussion to), we are aware of this issue and are currently working on it.

In order to help us in the investigation, are you working with MacOS or Windows?

Let me know,

PS: I'm renaming this thread, so users facing this problem will find it more easily 

[SilviaGJ]

Hi @Cyril Dellenbach , thank you for your quick reply.
I am working on Windows 11.
In the meantime, I have reinstalled Stager 2.0.2, but I had stupidly overwritten on my render files with Stager 2.1, so now 2.0.2 doesn't read them anymore.
Am I now stuck with the worse looking renders, and no way to fix them? 
Is there any way to save a file so previous Stager versions can read it? 
Thanks!

[Giuliano Buffi]

i have the same problems with this update the renders looks soooo bad idk why, i render a cup of wine and just look awful like a ai generated image..... and having a lot of problem with the raytracing too

[Berklie]

@Cyril Dellenbach, I just took the time to re-create a file from scratch... and the same thing is happening! I can't even take the time to create a new file without this happening. This no longer has anything to do with opening existing files.

This needs to be elevated in importance. At the moment, I cannot work in any fashion.

Any word on how to downgrade in Steam? Any word on Adobe helping us with trial versions of any previous file? This needs to be escalated.

Thank you

[Cyril Dellenbach]

Hi @Berklie,

Don't worry this issue has already been escalated. We always work as a team, and I was obviously not gonna keep this problem for myself.

As we're still investigating on the bug, I can confirm the issue isn't solely with existing files and we're now able to reproduce it. Considering some people aren't able to work on their projects, the problem is already quite high in our system. 

As said in a previous reply, the 2.0.2 is unfortunately not yet available on Steam, I've already contacted those in charge to have an ETA. We'll check what we can do that in this regard, and I'll keep you updated.

Best regards,

[Berklie]

Thank you for the follow up, @Cyril Dellenbach! Much appreciated!

[Giuliano Buffi]

i have the same issues, the renders with the last update are horrible, and i have a lot of work so the best solution was install the previous version.

[Berklie]

Darn... not fixed in 2.1.1 (Aug. 8, 2023) and still not fixed in 2.1.2 (Oct. 11, 2023).

😞