Using Adobe fonts in logo design

[_Sarah_Forrest_]

I'd like to use the Adobe font: Birch in a logo design, but after reading the license agreement I am unclear as to whether this is allowed.
Can anyone answer this question?

Thanks!

[Neil_Keller]

Sarah,

There is no problem with using Adobe (or most other) fonts for logo design. If there were, trust that there would be a lot fewer logos out there based upon real fonts. Just be sure to prepare the logo in Illustrator format, and convert it to outlines.

Neil

[Dov Isaacs]

Actually, there is no reason at all why you should convert text to outlines! All fonts in the Adobe Library, including Birch, allow embedding of those fonts in PostScript, EPS, and PDF. Thus, if you create a logo using Birch in either InDesign or Illustrator, exporting or saving to either EPS or PDF with fonts embedded will yield a perfectly legal and kosher logo maintaining the full quality of text rendered via fonts!

- Dov

[Neil_Keller]

Dov,

The reason for conversion for outline is there is (or was) an issue with fonts not properly embedding in Illustrator (.eps) files, particularly those logos created on the Mac and opened in Windows. I also recall that you had said that converting to outlines will add a small stroke to the letterforms, thus possibly visibly distorting their integrity.

Neil

[Dov Isaacs]

If you are creating a logo that is not going to be further "opened" or "edited" (which you normally would not do), but simply placed in other content, creating a PDF or EPS with embedded font(s) for the logo causes no cross-platform problems and provides for a cleaner rendition for both display and print.

- Dov

[Neil_Keller]

Dov,

I'm sure I also saw another reference, but I found this in Adobe Illlustrator CS3's Help files, emphasis is mine, which is the point of my confusion:

"Embed Fonts (For Other Applications) Embeds all fonts that contain appropriate permissions from the font vendor. Embedding fonts ensures that the original font is displayed and printed if the file is placed into another application, such as Adobe InDesign. However, if the file is opened in Illustrator on a computer that does not have the font installed, the font will be faux or substituted. This is to prevent illegal use of the embedded font."

Neil

[Dov Isaacs]

Neil,

You are absolutely right, but if you are creating a logo for placement into InDesign (or linked placement in Illustrator) from either InDesign or Illustrator as a PDF or EPS file, it is irrelevant whether that PDF or EPS file can be opened with Illustrator on another system!!

If the font allows embedding, we do the embedding when creating PDF or EPS from Illustrator and it is certainly perfectly legal to use it in the manner I described. Stay away from text outlining!

- Dov

[Neil_Keller]

Dov,<br /><br />As long as I have your ear...<br /><br />We create various logos for clients who have no Adobe application other than Adobe Reader. <g><br /><br />I've tried giving them .pdf files, and I believe they have had problems using them as graphics inserted into some of their application documents. They can figure out how to use an .eps file in an MS Word document (hey, never said this wasn't remedial!), or how to simply turn it over to a printer, specialty vendor or Webmaster.<br /><br />Apologies if I'm missing your point, but what do we give our clients then, when all they seem to be able to use relatively easily are .eps files?<br /><br />Hey, we have no problem turning over PDF/X-1a ad documents to newsstand publications for printing, and the results are right on target. But this basic logo --> client thing has caused me grief over the years.<br /><br />And I do recall sending an Illustrator document -- with fonts embedded -- to a Windows-based vendor, and they said all fonts were missing (not embedded).<br /><br />Thanks.<br /><br />Neil

[Dov Isaacs]

You send them EPS files with all fonts embedded.

With regards to your sending an Illustrator document (I assume a .AI file) to "a Windows-based vendor", if they opened it up in Illustrator, of course they would find that "all fonts were missing" because Illustrator does not use any embedded fonts when opening either an Illustrator .AI file, an .EPS file, or a .PDF file in Illustrator, regardless of being on Windows or Macintosh. That is a total different situation to placing a .EPS from Illustrator with fonts embedded into a Word or InDesign document or a .PDF from Illustrator with fonts embedded into an InDesign document. The issue is editing, not placing!

- Dov

[Neil_Keller]

Thanks, Dov.

I appreciate your illumination of a rather confusing subject.

Neil

[Dov Isaacs]

Just remember that Font is a four letter word beginning with an F!

- Dov :-)