Wow, that's interesting (that you can invoke the web service without a username/password in CFML, but can't register it in the Admin). Still, I want to understand what makes you want to do that (register it in the admin). You say, "I have a pool of web services to manage so I assume admin to be the best place to maintain them seeing on a broader perspective." I'm not sure what you mean by that. Besides a little more explanation, I'd still ask: if you can't get around this (not saying that it should fail, but just if it can't be resolved), do you at least agree that you don't NEED to define the web services this way to use them. In fact, the opposite is true: if you invoke them in CFML (whether with createobject/cfobject/cfinvoke) that will populate this Admin page for each web service that's invoked, so you could "get around" the problem and have all your web services listed this way, for whatever value that offers. But yes, it seems it should work the way you want to. I'm not denying that. Just trying to help. /charlie ... View more

Have you tried running CF from the command line (using the cfstart.bat file in [cf]\bin, or using the jrun.exe in jrun4\bin if running multiserver), rather than running it as a service?  That may give you more insight into the problem. You may also get prompts (due to Vista security) that are not offered to a "service" (since it can't respond). If that's not it, and if you are running the multiserver version of CF, I wonder what would happen if you stopped any other instances first, and then tried to start this one instance.    Hope that helps /charlie ... View more

@vsuri, first, do you realize that you don't need to "register" a web service at all? The admin interface feature is populated when you call a web service in CFML (using CFINVOKE, CFOBJECT, or createObject) to invoke it. The fact that it shows up in the admin is generally not even noticed by most. It's not something you NEED to do, if you're having an issue. That said, if you try to invoke it, are you also required to provide a username/password? That would be odd, if calling it from other systems. /charlie ... View more

@original_somedude, I don't quite know why you're having the hassles you are. I run Vista and CF8 and didn't have any of the problems you describe. I also don't recall jumping through any hoops to get it running. I also updated to SP1 months ago, again with no drama at all. Have you looked in the Windows Event viewer to see if perhaps there's more diagnostic info there? ... View more

Sure, and like I said, it would be good to get to the bottom of the problem, but before concluding that it's necessarily about CF8, since the trusted cache helped a little, can you tell us what you see as the template cache hit ratio (per the server monitor, or Admin API). If anyone there is averse to the Server Monitor, note that you don't need to turn on any of the "start" buttons  (monitoring, profiling, or memory tracking). Just look at the "Template Cache Status" page (under the "Request Statistics" section in the Statistics tab). I wonder if it may be sub-optimal (meaning, other than 100%). Be sure to look at it after the server's been up and running and had lots of typical traffic. Let us know what you see. As for your observation about the effect of the directory watcher with a large number of templates, I've not heard it to be a problem. When the directory watcher came out in CF 7, many had the same concern and I seem to recall assertions that it shouldn't matter how large the directories were that were being watched. Are you willing to try it? Again, it was an answer to the concern that your developers didn't like the trusted cache option. If enabling it solves this problem, even if only some, it just seems worth at least trying. But beyond that, let us know what you see going on in the template cache. I wonder if you may have a problem related to the loading and unloading of templates (going back to the original observation about the JVM, but looking at it more from a CF internals perspective than from a JVM perspective.) There's got to be an answer (and something unique about your setup), as I've not heard it being a general problem (that wasn't solved by the JVM update). As always, just trying to help. ... View more

Folks, are you sure that your that the page is completely blank (you do a view source in the browser and there's nothing there)? It can happen, but it can also be that the page has incomplete content that the browser doesn't show. Just checking. If the page fails before CF/JRun can dump any of the buffered output to the browser, you could be left with nothing. Of course, CF should get an error and the user should see that. Along those lines, are you also sure that there's no problem with any error handling (page-level with CFCATCH, application-level with CFERROR or onError, or server-level via the Admin site-wide handler)? Again, I realize that may not be it, but just worth checking. Finally, have you looked not just in the CF application.log but also in the -out.log, which would be in the [cf]\runtime\logs (or [jrun]\logs, if running multiserver)? They may offer more clues for you. ... View more

@Dhivya, I'm afraid this is just a possible limitation in using the Memory Tracking. It's a very resource-intensive operation. It works fine in development, and I've even seen some production sites use it also, but most experience what you have. The general consensus is just to avoid that feature in such a case. But there are a couple of other thoughts to consider. One is that you absolutely DO NOT need to start memory tracking in order to view the use of memory by CF (in aggregate). Go to the Memory Usage Summary page (in the Monitor, under the "Memory Usage" section on the "Statistics" tab) to see a graph of memory usage over recent time. Similarly, you can even see what simple variables are set in the session, application, and server scopes by viewing the corresponding pages for those in that "Memory Usage" section. You just won't see complex objects (queries, CFCs, arrays, etc.) in there without memory tracking turned on. Sadly, that has misled some who misunderstood that they weren't really seeing "all" variables in a given session, application, or the server scope. You also won't see any of the things that purport to show "size" with regard to memory. They'll be 0. But the bottom line is that the server monitor is still extremely useful without having that start memory tracking enabled. I wrote a 4-part series of articles for the Adobe Dev Center on the server monitor, which may help some readers. See http://www.carehart.org/articles/#2007_2 for the link to the first article, which points then to the others. Or you can skip to the other articles via links there on my site. One last thing I'll add, which most miss: you can use the "filter settings" feature (a tab within the settings button at the top of the monitor) to limit what code directories are monitored at all by the server monitor. In that case, you may find that you can turn on memory tracking while monitoring only THOSE pages you're interested in. I've not yet worked with someone who had the problem and was willing to turn it on to try this (since if it doesn't work, it can crash the server). If you do it, and it works for you, please let us know. (If it doesn't, notice also the "profile filter" option to try instead.) I do discuss these settings in the 4th article in the series, if you need a little more help in finding and using them (though at the time I did not discuss using it specifically to get around this occasional problem some have.) Hope that's helpful. ... View more

Erick, I think the conclusion about why it's faster is not that "run.exe process is not traversing down through folders looking for application.cfc or application.cfm templates". Rather, with trusted cache on, it's that CF no longer looks for each template (not just application.cfc/cfm) before it executes it, if it's already in the cache. And BTW, you could still have it looking for files, if they're not in the cache, which could happen if the cache is not sized appropriately for the number of templates that get put in there. Just being clear. In fact, I've seen people do some strange coding practices that REALLY hammered the template cache, so that even with trusted cache they were still causing that IO to the files as the template cache was clearing out files often to make room for newly requested ones. At least in CF 8 Enterprise, the Server Monitor (and Admin API) report the template cache hit ratio, so you can know if this is happening. We used to have that in CF5 and before, too, in the CFSTAT, but it reports 0 since CF6. Anyway, just one last thing about your observation of trying to run it in production. You conclude that it just won't fly, but are you saw you are aware of an automated approach using the Admin API. Do you know if it goes the extra step of using the CF Directory Watcher event gateway? If so, there's really no reason for the devs to balk. It's an amazing clean solution. More here: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/coldfusion/articles/cacheclear.html Hope that's helpful. Back to your original issue, it still seems that having the sandbox on is adding a burden on your machine. We need to get to the bottom of that. It may be that there's something unique about your setup (or volume) compared to others, or perhaps there's a known issue that I'm just not aware of myself. ... View more

Jonathan, about CFSTAT, just to be clear, it reports the same info as the Perfmon stats you were seeking. That's all I was trying to say, and that if they DO work, then the Perfmon stats should work. As for "java monitoring", well, don't confuse FusionReactor and SeeFusion with jvm memory monitoring tools. That's a whole different kettle of fish. These are indeed Java monitors, but that's not obvious to us as CFers using them. The point is simply that they make it crystal clear what requests are running, and help you drill into them to know why they may not be running well. I should have pointed to another introductory resource on using FR (as a CFer), at http://www.carehart.org/articles/#2008_6. As for the "enterprise monitor", do you mean the CF 8 Server monitor? . And as for it being expensive, do you mean that you have to buy Enterprise to get it? Or by "eating your young" do you maybe mean that it can be expensive in terms of resources? That's only if you turn on the memory tracking, in my experience.I'll add that I also have articles at my site that I've done as extensive introductions to the CF8 monitor. As for your heap size quesiton, I don't yet run 64 bit so someone else may need to chime in, but I suspect that if you're running CF in 32 mode you may be limited to the same 2gig memory space (and therefore a heap of about 1.3-1.5gb). But you ask if reducing the heap will make GC more aggressive. I think this sort of conjecture sometimes is fruitless. There are differences in JVMs (so what people say/know/read regarding 1.4 may not apply to 1.6), and what GC agorithm is used (and what the default is in different JVM versions), and so on. Really, you need to test things. You can observe GC processing by enabling GC logging. Still, I'd argue you may be heading down a wrong rabbit hole. What led you to jump from the problem you described to GC issues? I know many articles/blogs point to that as the first thing to investigate/tweak, but I don't agree. My approach (and recommendation to my clients) always is to get the right diagnostic info to tell you what's wrong, then go fix that. In my experience, it's hardly ever code. Instead, it's nearly always configuration, whether of CF, JRun, the JVM, the DB, the OS, the web server, the network, etc. And honestly, it's often very simple once you get the right diagnostics. So what about my last question, about what the runtime out log said before the last error? I have various things I might guess it could be, from experience, but again lets let your system tell us what's wrong. ... View more

No, Jochem, I'm only doing things through the traditional web interface. Perhaps some of the reason some things show up to people is based on whether one posts in one or the other interface. That, and the other things you mention, are really a shame to hear. Hope they're sorted out. ... View more

Jonathan, look at the error previous to that one. Often there's more than what that last error shows. No, you don't need to hop to another platform. I've never seen a problem that couldn't be resolved, as long as one follows the trail of diagnostic info. Let's hear what you see next. Also, did any of the other info above help, in terms of getting metrics? ... View more

Jonathan, I don't run CF on Windows 2008 yet, so can't help there. (It is supported, if anyone wonders, per http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/systemreqs/, so it should work.) I'd ask first: are you able to use CFSTAT (from the coldfusion8/bin directory)? That will give you the same metrics.If it doesn't work, then perfmon won't get them, either. Just to be clear, did you restart CF after enabling it? Don't recall if you should have to, but worth a shot. Until that's resolved, and as for getting to the bottom of your problems, there are also the JRun metrics that you can enable,which are mostly the same (and more). Just google to find more on that. You could also use tools like FusionReactor or SeeFusion, or still others (some are free, and the commercial ones have free trials). See my list at: ColdFusion Monitoring Tools http://www.cf411.com/#cfmon. Finally, as for finding answers, don't rely only on the "cf logs" (literally, those in coldfusion8/logs). Look in the coldfusion8/runtime/logs (or those using multiserver, look in jrun4/logs). Those often have far more useful info. You may also see log files in the coldfusion8/runtime/bin, if you're having crashes of the hotspot compiler. The Windows Event Viewer may also sometimes have useful clues. I discuss all of these and more in a presentation I did: CF911: Tools and Techniques for CF Server Troubleshooting http://www.carehart.org/presentations/#cf911 Hope that helps, until someone helps with the specific 2k8 challenge you're having. ... View more

Great to hear, and glad to help. If you don't mind, could you mark the question as answered? That could help future readers and other helpers. Thanks. ... View more

It would be a real shame to see you (and others) leave. Can I just offer my observation that at least this forum, the "ColdFusion Server Administration" one, is low volume enough that I have no problem following it via email. I realize that for some it's NNTP or nothing. Just offering that one thought before we see you go. ... View more

But Erick, as for the trusted cache, I concluded with " I would wonder if things would change dramatically for you if that was turned on, even if just temporarily for you to test things." Would you be willing to try it just briefly to see if it has an impact on your problem? Could help identify a solution or workaround (or bug). BTW, as far as the fear many have over using the trusted cache, and the concern that developers need to be able to easily implement updates to code, there's a nice solution to that in CF8. Ray Camden blogged about it and how in combination with the filewatcher gateway, CF can automatically pick up changes to code and clear the cache for those specifically changed files. More here: http://www.coldfusionjedi.com/index.cfm/2008/6/19/Clearing-individual-filesfolders-from-ColdFusion-templates-cache http://www.coldfusionjedi.com/index.cfm/2007/6/7/ColdFusion-8-Admin-API-and-Trusted-Cache ... View more

OK, thanks for the clarification. Well, I really wouldn't expect an issue with memory. But if you say the stack traces don't show requests to be stuck at the same point for extended periods, ok. Your observation about the folder traversal is interesting. Most would expect to see traversal "up" the structure when looking for the application.cfm, but this reverse order I would guess might instead reflect the fact that you either have multiple sandboxes (for the levels you see it traversing). Is that the case? As for it going to the CF8 directory, is that the wwwroot directory, or further down into its WEB-INF.Just seems worth clarifying. That's a really good diagnostic you've done. I've not done it before myself so don't know what's normal. The UNC path issue could well be significant as well. One last thing, though: you say "When sandbox security is off, I see the jrun.exe process go immediately to the required file(s) to serve out the resulting page." That's a little curious, in that I wouldn't expect it to "go to" each page at least to "run" the page, in that it should find the page in the template cache. But it would also look at the directory where a file lives when it did the check before each execution to see if the file source had changed. This is what the "trusted cache" option is for: if you know that the source is not changing. I would wonder if things would change dramatically for you if that was turned on, even if just temporarily for you to test things. ... View more

Bill, you say that trying to manually type in the path was a "no go". Can you be more explicit? We're here trying to help. We need more details. I'll repeat: I DID apply a hotfix this way, today. Are you saying the submit fails? Or you get no confirmation? Or it doesn't show up? I'll add that if you may be looking for the "update level" field of that System Information page, that won't change, with either a hotfix or cumulative hotfix. But I'm guessing you're still having an issue with the submission itself. Please do clarify. ... View more

Bill, you said, " Tried both leaving it blank as well as giving it the directory where the new jar file resides." Well, you don't just point at the directory, you need to point at the file, too. I wonder if the immediate solution will be as simple as that. You go on to say, "I suspect it may not like the SSL connection." Sure, that may be a factor, too. I don't know. I've not heard this being an issue, but it could be. You also theorize about a port problem. Well, the browser would send the request back on the same from which the Admin was served. I don't think that's an issue. To my observation about how the disabling of the RDS feature may be causing it, and would show that error, you say, "don't see an error". Again, that could be why instead you just see the "spinning". (I got your later clarification of what you meant by that, but still.) So first, try typing the path and the file name. If that still doesn't work (it really should), or if you want the browse working, can you confirm if you have RDS disabled. You can't tell via the CF admin in any way, but the technote points to the XML file which will tell you. ... View more

That is curious, Ian. FWIW, I don't use NNTP but instead do just use the web interface. I don't use NNTP (just never got into it over the years) and instead receive this forum's messages by email. I know that's repugnant to NNTP users, but the forum's not THAT busy. 🙂 So when I do reply to a thread, I do use the web interface. It would be sad if somehow you're not seeing Joe's other replies. He did do them via the web, as far as I can tell (it doesn't label him as a newsgroup user.) If it may explain any confusion, my previous 2 replies came in after his last (third) note. Ian, are you saying you never got any of Joe's notes after his first? ... View more

OK, thanks for that clarification. Any thoughts on running one of the tools to tell you why requests are slow? And I was mistaken in something I said. I had looked at your first note where you said you were running "Windows Server 2008 Standard", not CF 8 Standard. In fact, had I been thinking, the fact that you are using Sandbox Security should have clued me that you're running Enterprise, since it's in Enterprise only. Have you tried the active requests page, to see what requests are running (if you enable "start monitoring")? And if you drill into a request while "Start Profiling" is enabled, that will show you the stack trace for that request at that moment. For more on using the monitor, I'll point out that I did a 4-part series of articles on the CF 8 server monitor, starting at http://www.carehart.org/articles/#2007_2. For those not on CF 8 Enterprise, again, the other tools can be valuable. Some problems are just not easily resolved without them. Again, the tools are free to try and generally very easy to install and use. I should have offered URLs for them: http://www.seefusion.com and http://www.fusion-reactor.com. ... View more

Oh, I see that you marked your own answer (before I made my comment above). Well, I guess you could argue it's "the" answer, but really, Ian's was the answer to your question (why you couldn't, and how to resolve it.) The editing of the license.properties file was secondary even to the clarification that you change the version using the server settings page. But it's your thread and your right to pick the answer. 🙂 Just clarifying that some really do pay attention to the marked answer, so it seems worth being clear. No reply expected. ... View more

Bill, I think I may have an answer. I'm not quite sure why it'd "spinning", but I have a possible conclusion below. First, I'd want to note a couple of things. Most important, though, in case it can't be solved, I'd note that browse tool is just a convenience. If you know the path and filename you want to point to, you can just type it in. (If you're browsing the CF Admin remotely, the path needs to be that on the remote machine, such as its c: drive, not your z: drive.) Beyond that, first, the browse button is a java-based feature, so if your browser doesn't support Java, that could be an issue. But second, something else could be hurting you, and I wonder if this may be your issue. Many don't realize it, but if you disable RDS on a server (an option offered at installation, or configurable at any time per this technote: http://www.adobe.com/go/tn_17276), then those browse buttons in the CF Admin don't work. Now, you should see an error message, "Server Error: io error on communication with the server" (and there's a separate technote, http://www.adobe.com/go/tn_18046, which points that error to the other technote.) Of course, enabling RDS is discouraged on any public-facing server, and in fact the installer discourages it, so many accept the offer to disable it. But it does indicate also this impact on the browse feature (but at installation, one may not appreciate the significance.) You say things are just spinning, and I wonder if something is precluding the display of that message (which is a graphic) in that prompt. In fact, if I mouse over it, it does show the "spinning" icon as well, so I'm betting this is this the issue. Let us know. Or, again, just type the path/filename in manually, if you don't want to enable RDS. PS I will note that one other reason people don't use RDS is because it relies on a single password to be shared by all who would use it. There's a new feature in CF 8 Enterprise to address that, in the new option to enable multiple different user accounts for both the Administrator and RDS. In fact, I just did an Adobe DevCenter article introducing this at length. It's supposed to be coming out later today (at 4pm eastern), I would assume at http://www.adobe.com/devnet/coldfusion/. ... View more

If you've not done it, could you mark Ian's reply to you as the answer for this thread? If you want to mark my first reply as another answer, to your second question, feel free (I can't recall if you can mark more than one message as the answer.)  Glad to see you got your issues resolved. ... View more

Erick, assuming you get back and confirm that you have applied the jvm update and the CHF2, the next thought I have is that you could do some confirmation of what's slowing the pages down, specifically, by watching them run using a tool like FusionReactor or SeeFusion. (You said you're running on Standard, so you can't use the CF 8 Server Monitor, since it's Enterprise/Developer only.) Both FR and SF have free trials. It may be worth your checking them out. Besides showing what requests are running at any point in time, you can also ask each tool to show you a stack trace for a single request, which can show you exactly what line of CFML the request is running. If you repeat that and the request is stuck on the same line, now you have a smoking gun to investigate. In working with Russ, though, we never saw it stuck on any one line, which is what led us ultimately to think outside the box and I proposed the JVM update. If that's not your issue, I wonder if you may see different information revealed in stack tracing the requests (or at least confirming for yourself the "slow" pages appearing in the request monitor tools). They can be a great diagnostic, as sometimes you DON'T see slow requests in there running, which then tells you that the problem is somewhere else, like the web server or the web server connector, etc. (I do realize you wouldn't expect that to be the case with your problem, tied so clearly as it is to the Sandbox.) Let us know what you think of this idea. ... View more

Well, Erick, are you saying you did or did not apply the Cumulative Hotfix 2 for 8.0.1, as discussed early on in this thread? The thread has clarified from the beginning that the issue is due to Sandbox security. No new conclusion there. 🙂 But since you say it worked fine on 7 and not on 8, the 2 proposed solutions have worked for others. Just for completeness sake, can you look in your CF Admin and confirm in the System Settings page both that you see that 1.6.0_12 jvm level (you said you're running) indicated in the "java version" field, and (if you did apply the hotfix) that you see the "update level" pointing to lib/updates/chf8010002.jar? I'm not doubting your integrity or intelligence. 🙂 I'm just being diligent, so we don't go chasing some other problem if in fact either of these wasn't applied. If those are both applied, then we do have a curious additional cause in your case. I'd love to help see this resolved. I have another thought I'll share separately, as this one is long enough already. ... View more

Joe, are you asking for clarification of Ian's suggestion, about removing the license key?  You do that by editing the [cf]\lib\license.properties file, where you'd remove the sn value (leave just sn=), then save and restart CF. of course, you want to copy it and put it back to revert back to that previous license  when finished. (More in a moment.) By removing the key this way,you revert CF to the Developer edition, which is the same functionality as Enterprise, but limited to localhost plus the first couple of IP addresses to hit the server (requests from other IPs beyond that are then are rejected until CF is restarted).  The only way to switch from Standard to Full Enterprise is to enter an Enterprise license key, of course. His point, though, was that for the sake of what you're doing, you could avoid that by just using the developer edition to create and then restore the archive. As for adding the key back, you can do it either by putting it back in the license.properties file, or by using the "system information" page (click the "i" icon in the top right of the CF admin). Adding a license key there takes effect immediately, whereas again if you edit the license.properties file, you need to restart CF for it to take effect. ... View more

Glad it helped. As for the "disable access to internal cf java components", I'll say that I wouldn't expect it to be checked by default, for this reason as well as others. It's a useful security benefit for some, but it comes at a cost so I'd not expect it to be the default. Maybe someone can confirm either way. As for why you'd not have the problem on the 2 servers where it IS checked, but unchecking it solved it on the 3rd, that is curious. Anyway, if no one has an answer, at least for now this may serve as a solution for someone in the future. Cheers. ... View more

@brentil, ah, ok. I understand now. Yep, that is curious. I can confirm that it wasn't there on Mar 17, per the Google cache page: http://74.125.93.104/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_en-USUS291US306&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=cache:http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do%3FexternalId%3Dkb402604%26sliceId%3D1 Of course, by the time someone reads this in the future, it's possible that the cached page will be different again. One would want to note the date offered by Google at the top of the page it shows. So the real question is why the CHF link was note posted here until now. I'm with you that some resources are not always updated. I blogged about it: http://www.carehart.org/blog/client/index.cfm/2008/7/16/beware_technotes_may_not_be_listed_elsewhere Perhaps more dismaying is that the CHF2 technote lists many more HFs included than appear in the main hotfix page (the URL you pointed to). So one might ask why we should have had to wait for a CHF to get those hotfixes. Also, I notice that the main cf8 downloads page (which you pointed to originally) does not, in fact, refer to the 8.0.1 CHF (though it does list 8.0 CHFs). That should be address. I agree that we should expect the hotfixes page to list any hotfixes or CHFs as soon as they're available. Sorry I missed your main point. Sadly, I don't know that we can expect too much to come of this discussion here. There's just no guarantee that anyone responsible would see it. But here's good news. A couple of blog entries have raised the concern: http://www.creative-restraint.co.uk/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-8-0-1-cumulative-hotfix-2 http://blog.pengoworks.com/index.cfm/2009/3/18/ColdFusion-v801-Hot-Fix-2-released-in-Oct-2008 And Ben Forta is a party to the second one, where I've just added a comment asking to find who we can press about this. Finally, just an FYI: that URL you offered is indeed the same page that I'd offered. The URL I gave ( http://www.adobe.com/go/kb402604) comes from the "permanent link" offered at the bottom of all Adobe technotes, which is just a nice shorter URL. ... View more