From: "rpavich1234 Sorry but that answer is also comical............................. that's also comical. It is 'funny' that some computers have problems with LR 4.1, and that others don't, but not in the sense that you mean. Some people are just waking up to the fact that processing D800 files (40MB compressed) takes a lot longer than processing D700 files (20MB compressed), and even longer than processing D100 files (10MB compressed), and that's without the extra processing that 2012 does. They take longer in 2010 as well. The latest cameras have faster processors in them to cope with this, they use faster cards to store the images on, and ............................ need faster computers to process them. It's just logic, not 'lunacy'. Sorry that nothing seems to solve your problems. It's 'funny'. Bob frost ... View more

From: "rpavich1234 I'm sorry but I've been following this thread and the whole discussion is just comical. The ever-growing list of things to do to make LR4 even in the same performance neighborhood is staggering. Imagine buying a new car and have it perform worse by a large margin than last years model that you currently drive. Then imagine changing the motor, suspension, tires, fuel system etc...all in an effort to get it to even perform CLOSE to what last years model did. Sorry, but LR 4.1 runs fine for thousands (or millions?) of people, including me. So we have to try and work out what is different about the computers/images/catalogs/previews of those who find LR 4.1 doesn't run fine. I used SSDs for my catalog and previews in LR3, not just for LR4. It speeds everything up, since retrieval from disk is usually the slowest bit of most computers. An SSD in my cheap Samsung laptop makes it fine for demonstrating LR 4.1 in lectures - no slowdowns or hangups. I also did various of the things I have listed (export catalog to a new one, create all new previews, etc) when upgrading from LR2 to LR3, so nothing new there. A 'clean' setup usually runs faster than a dirty one, just as with OSs. I doubt if LR 4 will ever be faster than LR3, because it does a lot more things, and does them better. Might be a good idea if people stopped asking for new things to be added. They all add 'weight to the car' and slow it down. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "davepinminn When you walk through images in the library module, how fast does the loupe info update? 'Cause on mine, the previews aren't instantaneous, but the loupe info text is definitely BEHIND the image update. Presumably that is simply due to retrieval time from wherever you store your previews and catalog. I assume the image info has to be got from the catalog, after the correct preview has been selected from the previews folder. Putting your catalog and previews on a SSD will speed retrieval up. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "bcw99 Looking through this thread, I don't see any response from Adobe? That is because this is a User-to-User forum, where users help each other. If you want to report bugs, problems, or make feature requests, you should either use Adobe's Help lines, or use the other Adobe Forum where Adobe does participate - <http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/products/photoshop_family_photoshop_lightroom?sort=recently_created&style=topics> Bob Frost ... View more

From: "davepinminn MIne has been set to 2048 for a VERY long time since the primary monitor is 1920x1200. I haven't tried a lower setting other than when I've done "minimal" previews to speed importing, and that DEFINITELY makes things horrendous for any operation except the library grid. With a 1920 screen, you are not going to need a 2048 preview are you? I doubt if the preview will ever be more than 1680 on the screen? Try 1680. I use 1440 on a 1600 screen, and have no slowness problems, even with a second monitor of same size. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "davepinminn I don't know if this would matter or not since I've also been using an import preset for a very long time. It makes sure everything is at default, does the lens correction, sets a process (2012 now) and a profile (one of the standards if it's not nature, one of the landscapes if it is). Probably not a good idea to put lens correction in an import preset. Although this may seem sensible, it is known to slow everything following down. Try leaving lens correction until near last if you have lots of develop steps. Bob Frost ... View more

Bob_Peters wrote: Now I still want to know why it takes longer to zoom an existing preview to 1:1 in the Library module that it does to render the NEF in the develop module. And why does my aged MacPro only use a single core to perform the zoomiing operation in the Library? And why in a 2-core, i5 MacBook Air the same operation still uses a single core at a time.  There is some activiey on 2 cores but the overlap is slight and the virtual cores are bystanders? And why I keep beating my head against this wall Zooming an existing preview to 1:1 should be more or less instantaneous in Library. If it isn't, my guess is that there isn't an existing 1:1 preview, or if there is the previews database doesn't think there is, or you have done something in Develop that makes it necessary to re-render the preview. As to why your macs are only using 1 core while rendering the 1:1 preview, I'm lost. I've never used a Mac in my life, so I don't understand their foibles. AFAIK most of LR is multithreaded, and rendering certainly uses all of my 6 cores. If you delete the 1:1 previews of some files, and then set LR to build them again, does it still only use 1 core, or does that make it use all cores? As to why you're beating your head against the wall, I think it's called 'Mac Syndrome'  Bob Frost ... View more

From: "akadmon These are Canon RAW, roughly 20-25 MB each. OK so half the size of your D800 files, bob, and half the time to render. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "Stephen_Carpenter Yes but if you make any changes in develop then in library mode it will have to re-render the 1:1 preview when you look at it at 100%. This operation takes almost twice as long as rendering a 100% view in develop. Just got the answer to that one. It takes longer for Library to render a 1:1 than Develop, because Library has to render the whole 1:1 preview - the whole image - to save. Develop only renders the part of the image on the screen at 1:1 so that is quicker. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "Geoff the kiwi I don't know if bios can be changed in a Mac, who would want to?? Someone whose mac isn't working properly? Bob Frost ... View more

From: "Rob Cole What's abnormal, is that it only uses one CPU (zooming to 1:1 and having to render in Library module). I mean, maybe that's normal on some machines, but on mine all 4 CPUs are used. OK found his original post. If it were me, I would turn off hyperthreading in whatever Macs use for a Bios, and see if that makes any difference. My Win7 is the same as yours; all cores used in rendering in Develop and Library. Is this a general problem on Macs? Bob Frost ... View more

From: "Stephen_Carpenter Yes but if you make any changes in develop then in library mode it will have to re-render the 1:1 preview when you look at it at 100%. This operation takes almost twice as long as rendering a 100% view in develop. I believe this is what the other Bob was referring to. Ah, I see what you/he means. On my machine I wouldn't describe this difference as 'abnormal' because it is just under 3 secs in Develop and about 4 secs back in Library (with D800 nefs). Not a significant difference, but if his D800 nefs are taking 12 secs in Develop, then I can't see any way round needing a faster computer to cope with those big nefs. Bob Frost ... View more

SavagePhoto wrote: Does anyone want to guess why Lightroom is looking at these maybe its slow because its looking at s*** it has no buisness looking at. Image PID Type Handle Name lightroom.exe 6096 File C:\Users\xxxx\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\History\History.IE5\inde x.dat lightroom.exe 6096 File C:\Users\xxxx\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\index.dat l lightroom.exe 6096 File C:\Users\xxxx\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Cookies\index.dat What were you doing in LR when you saw this? I've never seen LR.exe looking at these files, but maybe I've missed it. Bob Frost ... View more

Bob_Peters wrote: I am limping along on a 5-year-old Mac Pro: I chose a sample of 20, D800 NEFs and measured the time to generate the 1:1 previews after clearing the cache and discarding the existing 1:1 previews. Lightroom 4.1 for both measurements. PV2010    8.9 sec / NEF PV2012  11.65 sec / NEF But you are using D800 nefs! My nefs vary from 10MB (D100) to 40MB (D800 lossless compressed), so the D800s are going to take at least four times as long as the D100s. My D800 nefs take about 4 secs each to render on a fast new desktop in 4.1 using 2012. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "Stephen_Carpenter Using spot removal on the same problem image each spot takes ~0.2s on LR3.6, ~0.5s on LR4.1 PV2010 and ~1s on LR4.1 PV2012. Doesn't the time depend on what you have done before the spot removal? Bob frost ... View more

From: "Bob_Peters Zooming to 1:1 in the Library is abnormal. Unfortunately, I have yet to find anybody who can indicate how to find the source of the problem. AFAIK, Zooming to 1:1 in Library uses the 1:1 previews you have already created and should therefore be quick. If you haven't created 1:1 previews, then they have to be made on the spot and that will cause a delay. Zooming to 1:1 in Develop, on the other hand, always re-renders the file, so there will always be a delay. It doesn't use the previews, even if you have them. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "rpavich1234 Of the users who complain, there is a huge cross section of machine specs that doesn't point to any one hardware issue such as "low performance machines won't work with LR4"... Low-performance machines will just work slower than high-performance machines. LR 4.1 works fine on my Samsung laptop and on my home-built desktop. Everything just all happens faster on the desktop, but LR is quite usable on both. I used the laptop to demonstrate LR 4.1 a week or two ago. No-one complained at the speed of LR; they were all quite impressed. But I obviously wasn't batch processing thousands of images. Sorry we can't solve your problems, but keep trying. Instead of going back to 3.6, can't you just use process 2010 in 4.1? That gives you all the other benefits of 4.1 without the more intensive process 2012. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "rpavich1234 In my experience in the past with software rollouts and beta programs, when there is a large cross system of users who have top performance machines, low end machines, and in between and those users are all complaining of performance...then it's the software that has some huge bug that needs to be squashed. It's clear what you mean, but you are still wrong with your 'all complaining' IME. I doubt if it is some 'huge bug'; I would guess its a series of small bugs affecting different machines. If it were a huge bug, I would have expected it to show up on Adobe's test machines, and on their testers machines, but I may be wrong. None of us is infallible; we're all just humans. ... View more

From: "rpavich1234 >It's not as if the people who are having problems have crap machines that >are in disrepair... I was reading a post just the other day from a Mac user who was having problems with LR, and it turned out to be a Permissions problem, so she had to 'repair permissions' to access some of her images. So her Mac was in 'disprepair'. Permissions problems on Macs seem quite common. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "Eaglerapids I don't understand why people like Bob and Rob are even posting on this thread. You say your system is working fine, so why are you trying to help people whose systems aren't working fine? Because although my system is currently working fine, it hasn't always been so, and I've had to do most of the things in my list to get LR working again - going back to LR1. I've had to clean out my catalog, I've had to re-render all my previews, change graphics cards, update graphics drivers, etc, etc. And these things have solved whatever problems I had with LR at the time. So I'm speaking from experience with these issues. This is a User-to-User forum, where users are supposed to help one another solve problems. It is NOT the forum for telling Adobe what you think of them, or even asking them for help. The other forum is read by Adobe, and of course they have help-lines for 1:1 help. It may seem laughable, but currently I'm rebuilding my previews database (65K images) because a few hours ago my computer had three blue screens in short succession while running LR (probably due to over-clocking), and that wiped out the previews database. That does not help LR performance, so I'm re-rendering all my previews - actually it does not re-render them in this case - it knows the previews are still there, but the record of them in the previews database has to be redone. Should be done in another three hours or so! Bob Frost ... View more

Stephen_Carpenter wrote: bob frost wrote: It's a brave man who says that!  Troubleshooting complex computer problems is what I do for a living I have the same problem on two different systems. Different CPUs, different chipsets, different GPUs, both external mouse & built-in trackpad (laptop). This is Windows 7 but other have reported identical symptoms on Macs. There are two many people with the same problem and different setups for it to be dismissed as a driver issue. There's one common denominator and that's LR. These problems have been going on for some time. People are frustrated at the lack of engagement by Adobe. If they have reproduced this in-house and are working it then saying so would help. If they can't reproduce it then they are welcome to send me a version with a profile harness and I'll get them all the data they need. Ah, I only do it for the challenge and to keep the brain working in retirement. The problem is this is a User-to-User forum, and there is no guarantee that any of the Lightroom team will see these posts. Best to repost it on the main Adobe forum, where the team do watch things, and get engaged. http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/products/photoshop_family_photoshop_lightroom Victoria may pass your problem on to the team, but posting it on the main forum is your best bet of it being seen and cured. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "Stephen_Carpenter No pen, no tablet, just a normal mouse. This is not a system issue (hardware, software or driver). It's a brave man who says that! I had a LR problem with my MS mouse. Using the MS intellipoint mouse driver it often didn't scroll properly on panels. Uninstalling that mouse driver and using the built-in Win7 driver cured the problem. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "Stephen_Carpenter I also see the spot removal tool problem. What I see is high CPU utilization across all the cores of a Core i7: So you use a Wacom pen? Someone else found the Wacom driver was causing his spot removal problems. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "Victoria Bampton Er, yes, thanks Rob. While that's what I'd do on my own machine, I think I'd get slaughtered for suggesting it as a wholesale solution. That said, hardware issues are certainly a percentage of the problems. My business partner complained for ages, before discovering that one of his hard drives was failing. I think there are multiple different causes going on here, which makes it much harder to narrow down. But it has to be said; I built myself a new computer last year, and LR kept crashing. Eventually I realised that LR only crashed on this one new machine, not on my laptop or old backup computer. It was a faulty power supply that was causing the crashes, and those crashes often corrupt LR's catalog and previews. I had to swap the power supply to find out what was the problem. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "andreas603 maybe its just me but that isn't scarcastic? The OP simply asked for a summary of work arounds that have helped. Perhaps I'm the only one that needs to clarify what I mean by 'work around'... Bob's post/response is a work around. Your post was a rant To be fair to Rob, I suggested the other day that someone who said they had tried everything else should now backup their OS, install a clean OS, and only install LR with a new catalog and just import a few files to see whether the problems are still present. I've done it myself in the past. The possible combinations of software/hardware that don't play nice together are almost limitless. So if a clean start solves the problem, then adding other stuff back in one by one, may show where the problem lies. Adobe and the other firm can then get together to sort it out. Bob Frost ... View more

From: "johnbeardy Bob, you left off File > Optimize Catalog I also left off - Check that any virus checker you use is not checking your catalog and previews each time they are accessed. You can usually go into the virus checker and tell it not to check the folder where your catalog and previews are stored. Some virus checkers slow things down more than others. Bob Frost ... View more

A few more tips:- In Library and Develop, turn off the Navigator panel and Filmstrip if you are not using them. They all have to be updated and use valuable resources. If you don't use the Histogram, turn that off as well. Don't put resource-intensive stuff like Lens Corrections in a preset. Leave it till later in your Develop process. Similarly with spotting; leave that until near the end, and if you have loads of spotting to do, do it in Photoshop instead of LR, after you have finished Developing in LR. There are limits to what parametric editing can do easily. Of course, if you have a big fast machine, it may be able to cope with all that recalculation easily, but smaller or older machines may struggle with loads of edits. Make sure any presets you use have been updated for LR4. Don't use old LR3 presets unless you are using 2010 process. Bob Frost ... View more

A C G wrote: Bob, A useful list. Someone should make it a sticky. But what do you mean when you say "Put LR on All Photographs and leave overnight to do all its checking routines." What menus/dropdowns are you using? Tony Go into Library, and at the top of your Catalog panel (below Navigator), you will see 'All Photographs'. Simply select that and leave LR alone for a few hours (depending on the size of your catalog). It then apparently does lots of checking of the previews database and rootpixels database and catalog, which you can see in Task Manager/Resource Monitor if you are on Windows. Not sure what it is doing, but there is a lot of reading/writing going on. It might make a difference, so I leave mine on every now and again. Bob frost ... View more

rpavich1234 wrote: I'll stick with no gain until the pain is removed from LR4 Have you tried taking aspirin with your 4.1?  Bob Frost ... View more

From: "A C G If this thread is intended for Users to help Users please stop cluttering it with "I don't have a problem" posts. My previous post was a suggested work around. Even if it only helps one LR user it'll be more use than me swanking about not having any problems. No 'swanking' - just correcting the wrong impressions some give that 'everyone has got problems'. I've posted quite a few things to try, so to summarize:- Export catalog to new catalog, before creating all new previews and acr cache. Create all standard and 1:1 previews overnight to speed up Library. Remove/rename old prefs before trashing current prefs, otherwise LR may use them in the new prefs. Update your Bios. Make sure you are using the latest drivers, particularly graphics and mouse/pen. Don’t install or uninstall all the extra add-ons beloved by graphics card makers - just install the basic video driver. Use SSD for catalog and previews. Use internal drives for images wherever possible, don't put catalog and previews on external drives. Don’t use very large monitors. Put LR on All Photographs and leave overnight to do all its checking routines. Don’t expect most laptops to work as fast as desktops. If your old processor can't cope with the new develop routines, use the 2010 process until you can upgrade. You still get all the rest of LR4. That will do for a start! Bob Frost ... View more