osgood_  wrote On this ocassion I've marked my own post as 'helpful' because no-one else is going to inform you of the truth in this forum. Most, including a substantial number of so called 'ACP's dont know how to code their way out of a paper bag. Didn't see this before, so here is my take - 'Helpful' does not mean anything, (or correct answer sometimes) as it relies on the understanding of the person marking an answer as such, and the level of knowledge regarding what the OP requires, (drag and drop type of workflow, or codeing). I would not say that ACP actually means anything when it comes to web design/development either, simply because of the diversity in what each individual answering is/has produced(ing). I don't know much about small personal/buisness sites anymore, simply because I don't develop them, and I have yet to see, (except from the w3c definition of less than $250000.00) a real world definition. So for me extensions, plug-ins, or any other none code method, means nothing, as I don't use them. The question should be asked however, of what the OP hopes to achive career wise. Maybe we should ask every poster what type of Dw user they are before answering? ... View more

Preran​ Hi Preran, Any news from the team yet, regarding Dw, (not just the roadmap)? ... View more

I could say why use js, when one can use css - https://codepen.io/lewismcarey/pen/GJZVoG ... View more

Just got a reply back from one of the Safari developers. To develop a specific layout for the iPad in future, use the resolution property in a media-query, (the webkit version). So it looks like we are back to where we started, and adding more media-queries targeting specific resolutions, (device-aspect-ratio). There was a big but though, in that the browser will ignore it when the query is also targeting the old tablet query sizes, so no less than 750px or ... ... View more

Except for the uncertainty about how text using px units will be handled, the main problem I can see is 'what happens in portrait orientation'?. The desktop version of a site in landscape, will not be that much different to the desktop on a small mac laptop, (iPadOS will support pointer events) if developed correctly. Plus most iPad users use landscape view, (apparently) so not a big problem, but the use of iframes for video/animate/etc may present a layout problem, (plus all the next apple os's, (inc iOS) will enforce w3c use compliance for them) as the enclosed content will not be resized. I'm glad I retired, so not really a problem beyond when people start asking why the desktop version is being shown on iPads in the future, as for now, I have a nice restaurant and riverside bar to support at the moment. ... View more

What worries me Ben is that I can find no information about what happens to text. Currently iOS devices enlarge text so that say 16px text is displayed as it would be on 'standard' screens. I have no iPad with enough spare disk space to test the new OS, (poor retired person that I am . With more people using 4k+ displays now than 'standard' hd displays, the move to bring browsers into line does not surprise me. But just as a precaution, (untill more is known) I think I would advise developers to use the rem unit for text and abandon px units completely, (mind you, that has been said for the last 8-9 years anyway). ... View more

BTW - Just in case you are wondering why this announcement is important - iPad OS Safari will now read your media queries correctly, it will not say 'I am a 4k retina display on an iPad, so 1px in a media query = 4device pixels', instead it will say '1px =1px'. Your meta tag will NOT compensate, except to scale the desktop media query to the device display. ... View more

AL will be missed by all. I'm not religious, but if your listening Al - 'keep me a seat al the bar, I'm buying the first round'. ... View more

osgood_  wrote However if you are a whizz at vanilla javascript you dont need to resort to any js framework. My one concern is how many developers are diving straight into a framework be it html or js before actually having a good fundamental knowledge of basic coding requirements. What worries me is that many of the js frameworks are re-inventing what can now be done using built-in browser api's on the js side, and what css alone can now do. Using the the re-inventing the wheel saying, many of them are providing extra wheels that are no longer required. ... View more

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote so, by having created a set of personal tools, I was less inclined to use other libraries when they gradually appeared. today I'm trying to figure out how to integrate personal libraries with a web component mechanism. I'm glad its not only me wondering if it can or how it will work Birnou. I think we started this type of work too early in the profession . ... View more

Hi Ben, It's not the use of bootstrap that would concern me, (except the jQuery part) but the use of frameworks such as vue and angular. Such frameworks whilst having their followers, are not mainstream, and are still nich workflows especially when used for projects such as Birnou describes, (post #30). The use of standard api's, html, js, css and a back-end would meen that full documentation is open to any developer. I'm more concerned with raising awareness of building such projects, and making maintanence, (expansion and updating of features) a consideration that must not be forgotten. Which to my thinking means applying the principle of 'KISS', when researching, feature & content fact finding and development planning is in progress. What many comming from web site development to PWA development often forget, is the sheer amount of data that can be involved, all of which must be created, compiled, correlated, stored and retrieved from the server. The back-end, and the data requirements for off-line use, (if relevant) are as big a problem as the front-end. ... View more

BenPleysier  wrote If I were in a position to have to create a complete admin dashboard (which I am not), I would be looking to use a JS framework like VueJS, React or Angular 7 (or in my case App Connect in combination with Server Connect). A headless approach, delivered by these frameworks, will give speed and flexibility to the app. The problem with frameworks, or none standard solutions, (by that I meen, not html, css, normal js, and server side) is that such projects are often long term. This means one must be able to do anything necessary without any requierments for more niche solutions, beyond the standard W3C or server/db side. Even the development environment should be one that everyone involved can use, and feels comfortable using. As Birnou will agree, it is standard practice, that once such a project is handed to the client, at the most 1 month later, someone, somewhere, will find something missing. Which is why I would be interested to read Birnous findings, on both his choices, (like using BS) and any other problems he finds. ... View more

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote Preran ... due to the particular nature of this project (no budget, no internal team (local work, no synology) so no issue for latence et ressources leak), the idea of testing DW (latest version) for this project is also a highlight... testing Sass, HTML5 and APIs, Bootstrap 4.3 , live view rendreding and GIT... why not write a series of articles on the subject? Whilst I don't use any CC version of Dw, I would be interested to read your general findings, (problems, views on, etc) just to compare notes on what I found building a custom project vs using frameworks. As I have said earlier in the discussion, it is a multi-billion dollar part of web development that Dw has largely ignored, and also one that many do/did not know existed. Maybe this discussion and any articles you write, will help  others that think such projects are beyond 'what web developers do'. I also would like to know if Preran has heard anything, (or can share anything) regarding the future of Dw. ... View more

Maybe an example of the type of user focus problem I am talking about. In such a system, it is not uncommon, (and this is where off-line PWA's come in) for the user to have technical manuals included. So for a common example lets say the manual is the manufacturers service manual for a ford mustang. We all know from experiance, reading such material can be borring, (to say the least) but the mechanic using the system must read through it. So how would one make the reading more interesting? Think of the technical drawings, the service requierments, the location of components, and warnings or service problems that must be known, (remember flipping through the pages is not possible). Then lastly as we all know health and safety notices are required, (pop up windows or animated 'info'). ... View more

Thanks for joining in Ben, your thoughts and experiance about BS will be greatly appreciated. I know Birnou has built such systems before, and for myself such systems are really most of what I know. One of the biggest advantages of working on such projects is that one normally knows what browsers and devices, (even versions) are being used before hand, which gives one more flexibilty in what one can do. The big disadvantage is that the user is often using the UI for hours each day, so one has to think of ways to keep the user focused. I said I'm not in favour of too many animations, but I have used css shapes when presenting long pieces of text in order to make reading more interesting. So if you was to build such a UI, would you agree with Osgood regarding the use of animations, (look at the 3rd example in the original post) or would you look for some other means of 'keeping the user focused', and if so what? BTW everyone, that is an open question, as I know from experiance that 'keeping the user interested' and how one does so, has caused many long and very interesting discussions. ... View more

One last thought, have you tried looking at the server error logs? ... View more

I'm out of suggestions. Just for info, cloud based hosting is the same as normal hosting except that the servers are more distributed in various locations. They still suffer from the same problems though. ... View more

You could use a temp ip address, but the actual site would be unavailable whilst doing so, as the look-up would point to the original ip. Without being there to check the server stack, I would ask the server admin if there is a fault with any other site hosted on another server in the stack. If not then it is possible that the drive itself is failing, (any other sites hosted on that drive they can check?). ... View more

Don't get alarmed about this as the problem may just be a setting. Ask the network admin to check the server load, as a DofS works by overloading the server, so the response time is too long for the browser. It may also happen if a network back-up stops working, (may try to pull more and more info from server, but cannot) or some other network problem may be causing it. ... View more

If it's taking a long time for you to get a ping response, then there is something wrong on their end. It should only take milli-seconds for a response. So the computer that is not getting any response, may just be timing out, waiting for a response. ... View more

If it is not responding, then yes, it is being blocked. If they are using IE/Edge, then it may be being blocked in his internet exceptions in the setting, or less likely, (if they are connecting via lan) the lan network itself may not be allowing access, this one is common if they are using a new computer, and it has not been configured correctly, (a network admins problem). ... View more

Have you asked the client to try 'pinging' the IP from his computer? See - https://m.wikihow.com/Ping-an-IP-Address ... View more

Just noticed, (only tested original post links on iPad today) the only one of the original 3 that does not collapse the sidebar on scroll, is the 3rd choice. May be different on newer iOS's, I have version 10, (not enough free disk space to update). ... View more

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote by turning, turning, turning, taking back my notes... I think I'll move towards the outsider proposed in the first list of three #comment1 the list of components is almost infinite, it is we node, gulp and NPL (so).... BS 4... I think I'm going to move towards the (non modern) version with side bar) which seems more complete and cover the needs of the application Well, the discussion is not over. https://designreset.com/preview-equation/default/ I don't know if you have viewed that template on a tablet, (I'm using an iPad) but if you collapse the sidebar then scroll the page, the sidebar expands on its own. ... View more

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote but it's true that not knowing these two libraries, I preferred to ask the question, in the sense that maybe an informed user of both, could have returned a vision at the level of browser portability, or regarding the durability https://github.com/twbs/release ... or any other points that would have escaped me That's why I thought more forum regulars might join in. I would not use BS at all, but I can understand people doing so for this kind of project, as my method(s) would cost more, both in time and money. Plus I have always thought BS was more suited to such a project than simple web site development. I'm probably the wrong person to ask though, as such projects are more in my field of development than web sites. Which unfortunatly means I can see pitfalls in using open source frameworks,that may not be really relevant for using bootstrap, as unlike many frameworks in the past, bootstrap has a wider user base, and at least uses a modern layout method, (flexbox). However, the use of any framework does restrict what can be done, as it relies on contributions from others to grow in features. Also I do not know enough about bootstrap, to know if it uses all the flexibility of what can be done with flexbox. It is often said that flexbox is one directional, but I know from experiance, (and the w3c agree) that it can be used in 2 directions, (horizontal and vertical layout). ... View more

osgood_  wrote At some point I have to stick or twist much the same as I did with flex and never looked back only this time I think its going to be a combination of both grid/flex rather than replacing float in favour of flex. I rarely use float now. I think we are there now, but just like flexbox when it first came to developers notice, it will be a 'use in moderation' layout method initially, and not on anything critical for the UI. Maybe start with the content layout first with a simple fallback used via the @support rule. There will always be those who say no, but with support going back to IE10, (admitedly with prefix, and some features missing) using grids for content should be an easy method to get into the 'way of thinking' for grids, because just like flexbox required one to think about layout differently, grids has the same re-think problems. The one thing I think will cause problems, is css grids beginners, (especially designers) thinking it is a design grid layout system, forgetting that a web page is not a fixed printed page and should 'flow' to cover all screen/device sizes. ... View more

Quite honestly Birnou, I had expected more regular contributors to join in the debate, as admin UI's and there use for PWAs is a multi-billion dollar section of web development, (in every country). Given that bootstrap is ideally suited for small teams developing such, I would have also thought we would have had a differing of thought regarding boostrap and how easy or hard using it for admin Ui's extensibility would have been. ... View more

I would look at what you wish to use from BS components. BS3 will keep working and whilst BS4 is flexbox based, floats are going to continue to be used. For a UI, flexbox is an ideal candidate, for a number of reasons, the biggest one being that they make going from desktop to mobile device layouts easier than floats. So if multi-screen sizes are a consideration for me, BS4 would be my choice as it is more future proof than BS3 using floats. Future readers layouts, note - Before anyone says, 'what about css grid layouts', I think flexbox is better when going from desktop to mobile, but css grids are better when going from desktop to larger displays. ... View more