osgood_  wrote I guess to me it is one of those additions that could be included along with Sass.................fluff. Im sure both in the right circumstances have benefits, its really about being able to identify those circumstances rather than just throwing a blanket over them all. You know what, its just about poorly educated developers, who mainly these days take their lead from the giants and because the giants are deploying these methods they think its suitable for deploying on their small project. It that nasty trickle down effect. Nearly everything mainstream we use today started life for a specific purpose, not a mainstream one, including Git. If a developer is not self employed, then it may be worth them learning how to use git, even when they are doing small sites. Simply because in a team/ corporate environment they may have to work using git or some other form of workflow, so to progress up the pay scale, git and/or project managment is a necessity, (remember the shortage of web designers/developers in the EU). Sass, (any css pre/post-processors) are another of those 'fads' whose time has just about run out. The ability to use variables and mix-ins, was a necessity 5-10 years ago, but with auto-prefixers and css having its own variables now, their use is no longer the time saver that it once was. ... View more

What I always find interesting, (and telling) when workflows are discussed, is that very little mention is made about the type and size of the site/app being produced, which are probably the most significant items that decides a workflow. If you look at the post from Birnou, (#55 I think) he mentions the site/app specifications. By saying there is a specification one has then to decide what the specification requires in order to be compliant with the least hassle with the specification. For the avarage small buisness site, we are probably talking of the design and a cms. On a slightly more complexed site it may include functionality, such as how a searcg feature should work, and product filters, (type, colour, price). So the specification will include more, and more features the larger and more complexed the site becomes. My argument would be, that for a small site, (even with a cms) git can be overkill, as just the setting up, and remembering what is what, will take up more time than commenting the code and making notes. Once one moves to a large much more complexed site/app, git in many cases becomes a tool for team members, (from developer to photographer) that could be used as part of the project managment, (if there is more than one person) as overall project management should be the responsibility of one person, (normally the manager, but does not have to be). ... View more

Actually Os, I can understand what Birnou is saying. The problem is not so much interpretation but one of 'where Birnou is coming from', (no insult intended to both of you). Birnou is using a team approach to his workflow, (only my opinion) and you are using a 'lone developers' workflow, (again only my opinion) and even though both have there points, they are not compatible, or usable in all circumstances, (again my opinion). But. If a workflow works for the individual, then that is the one to use. ... View more

osgood_  wrote I like to frequently change things up as I use 2 or 3 editors daily, maybe even more. MS Project even has an extension for time tracking, in which you can tell it to monitor which and when programs are used. ... View more

osgood_  wrote pziecina   wrote With a proper project managment tool, everything that one can do with git, can be done with the project managment tool, even file merging and comparison, (with colour usage to indicate, who, why, what, where, when) on all files and client/project resources/assets, and all communications between each and all. Now you're talkin 'Microsoft Word' tracking........very advanced Very similar, (I use MS Project, so not surprising). The thing is that a project managment tool, would not only do everything, everyone thinks is grat about git, but would also incorporate every part of the project also. I admit MS Project is expensive, but when VS Studio is included in the price, plus MS Office, (with visio) the overall cost for a developer, developing enterprise sites, is easilly comparible to a CC + Wappler subscription. Ignore that price comparison. I have just checked, MS Project costs less than a single Dw subscription. ... View more

Sorry Birnou, my thinking always jumps around to various requirements before I land on the one I want, (the problem with that, is that everyone else misses the thought indetween). My argument against git is that for a lone developer it can be more trouble than it is worth. But, if that lone developer wishes to 'break into' developing enterprise level sites, then project managment should take priority over version control. With a proper project managment tool, everything that one can do with git, can be done with the project managment tool, even file merging and comparison, (with colour usage to indicate, who, why, what, where, when) on all files and client/project resources/assets, and all communications between each and all. That's how I came to change from version control and git, to project managment. It's Just me Birnou . ... View more

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote pziecina   a écrit I can remember a discussion in which Dw users where being told to upload the site to git, then upload via ftp from git. Again, doesn't such advice overcomplicate a workflow? it is true that if we ask users to do anything, it quickly becomes a mess GIT must be used to manage intermediate versions and FTP in order to synchronize the production server. then, and depending on the access provider, we can define the DNS on the master branch, which avoids going through an FTP For a lone developer requiring version management then they must be developing more than small buisness sites, (even enterprise sites can be developed by the lone developer). A much better tool would be some form of project managment tool, with the html, etc. files required for the project correctly 'filed and commented'. A project managment tool could also be used from version control, but a version control cannot be used for project managment. However, we are talking Dw here, so project managment is like asking for full html5 support. Never going to happen. ... View more

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote once one of the branches satisfies you, you have a magic GIT tool that allows you to merge the desired branches together, or with the master... no doubt about which file has been modified, where, or by what, who, when or how... etc... everything remains 100% operational flexible and so easy to use O/K, I will agree that in a team environment some form of version control system is necessary, (would be stupid not to). But is it really necessary for a lone developer? I can remember a discussion in which Dw users where being told to upload the site to git, then upload via ftp from git. Again, doesn't such advice overcomplicate a workflow? ... View more

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote pziecina   a écrit If you are reading this Preran. Preran is out of office until 8th of July... Some people have it easy. (just joking Preran ) ... View more

The question you should be asking yourself is, what do you want to do? The simple fact is, that no video will give you more than a basic overview, as it is impossible to tell or show someone all that they require. With modern html5, css and javascript on the front end, you can create every design/layout that was previously thought to be only possible using flash, (or a dtp program for print). Even a simple thing like text, can now offer features that one though was only possible in dtp layouts. At the moment we can also create layouts using css flexbox, and css grids, which are much more easily adaptable to rwd than float based layouts could ever be. Also don't forget that css animations moves what is possible using just css, (and a bit of js to help things along if you wish) into the creative sphere of those who previously used flash. As for the back-end using php, everything from simple form submissions to enterprise application are possible. The best none video resource, (approved and sponsored by the w3c, microsoft, chrome and firerfox) is - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide ... View more

Those courses are all for old versions of Dw, with many of them going back to CS6. Also most regarding the web are not Dw specific. ... View more

If you are reading this Preran. I have just finished watching the 'advanced' video tutorials for Dw, and being honest they are much to basic to be called 'advanced', plus they could do with added notes on the page for 'further reading' to direct users to more complete or advanced information. Don't know, but maybe the above comment on 'further reading' could apply to other product tutorials as well. ... View more

We are probably once again at the point we should call Preran​ in, as along with the discussion in https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2605211 the Dw/Adobe managment may wish to consider the points in this discussion, (including the Dw tutorials being too basic). ... View more

Correct Os, Dw does not have a terminal window, it does not even have the old js runner window anymore. Correction - It does have a terminal window for git, but it is another one of those 'half finished features' that does not do what is required by most developers. ... View more

Thanks for joining in Ben. I don't know when or how Dw managed to get so far behind, (I have a few ideas, but do not know) what is really required, but unless something changes soon, I don't think it can survive. It's not even a question of what developers are willing to pay for an IDE, (for most cost is 'almost' secondary) that would make an Adobe IDE, (Dw or something new) profitable, but the fact that Dw in its current offering is not what is required or even close to what is required. ... View more

Adobe do know how profitable web development requierments can be, as its experiance cloud offerings generate over 30% of its profits, (more than any other offerings). For those who do not know about experiance cloud see- https://www.adobe.com/uk/experience-cloud.html The problem for Dw though, is that the experiance cloud is aimed at enterprise sites, which is not the type of site Dw can develop. ... View more

osgood_  wrote I can't argue with that....one update a year is not really acceptable these days. However I think we all know the fate of DW, its on life-support. The question is when not if it will be pulled. Lets be honest Dw does not fit in with any other Adobe product. It does not even require any other Adobe CC product. Animate one can completely forget. Photoshop has had no new features added for the web since CS6, and even then cheaper products are available. Even Illustrator for svg's does not match upto inkscape when it comes to the web. Adobe themselves do not require Dw to support its web 'products' such as coding for its experiance management features, and the team for experiance manager did not even consider Dw durring development. ... View more

First I hope the OP does not mind us going off-topic? As for Wappler, I did read a discussion regarding PWAs in their forum. But PWAs require api's, off-line databases, user interaction features, well beyond normal web sites, which cannot be done without a very good knowledge of code. Maybe itis time to forget none IDE programs, and the people that want to incorporate such features without knowing 'how'. As without a program including the necessary features such as a de-bugger, (js and server side) more advanced site requirements such as those for PWAs are impossible to code. At the moment though, Dw must 'up its game' especially when it comes to the requirements of those developing for the web, and stop creating features that are only 'half finished'. ... View more

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote hello Preran, Thank you for your post... but in fact, I wasn't expecting a simple roadmap... a roadmap was a bit like a sword in the water... here in France we say a cast on a wooden leg. please read again correctly the messages #21 and #23 to which in fact it does not seem to me to have seen any answer pass thanks for your attention and have pleasant day birnou I don't think the discussion is going to happen Birnou, which is what I ment when I said 'I have a bad feeling'. ... View more

As I and you said, there is a complete lack of direction regarding Dw. I agree the tutorials etc. are too basic, and lacking any in-depth information. It is either for very basic site building, or for no user type. ... View more

If you look at the 'learn' section, (on the r/h side) of the forum landing page - https://forums.adobe.com/community/dreamweaver that is all there is. Everything else you need to learn is html, etc. which is none Dw specific, - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Tutorials ... View more

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Peter+Carr  wrote It's an excellent package for real heavy weight designers. But this is off the point. That's just the point, it is not. Just to give you an idea of the problem, I, (and a few others, even in the Dw pre-release) have been asking for a discussion with the Dw managment, (or even a team member) for 4-5 years now. As we know Dw is not for anyone anymore. It is not for those who wish to code in a serious manner, or for those who wish to built sites with only a basic coding knowledge, (certainly not for those without any coding knowledge). Even a well known Dw extension developer, (dmxzone) have developed a more 'designer' friendly program, (Wappler it is called) as they no longer think Dw is aimed at 'designers'. Whilst I can understand your frustration(s) regarding Dw, (and lack of tutorials) I cannot in all honesty recommend Dw to anyone anymore. It does not offer the developer what they require, and it does not offer the designer what they require, but until the Dw managment answers our concerns regarding the future of Dw, its future user audience is a mystery to everyone. ... View more

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Peter+Carr  wrote What I don't understand is why Adobe, if selling the product, don't provide detailed video tutorials. Because there is nothing to learn beyond setting up a site definition anymore. Dw is no longer a drag and drop designer friendly program, instead it is aimed at users who wish to code, (though not an IDE). ... View more

What do you wish to learn? Except for how to set-up a site definition, Dw is nothing more than a text editor with a few additional helper functions. It also requires one to know how to code, which means that any video or resource that teaches html, css, (and possibly js with a server side language) will be more benificial than a Dw specific tutorial. The days of visually creating a website using Dw are long gone, and not to be recommended. ... View more

Just for future reference, the W3Schools web site has NO association with the W3C, it is a private commercial site. If you do wish to use a reference/learning resource that is sponsored and approved by the W3C, (and firefox, Chrome, Microsoft) then the site to use is - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Reference ... View more

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote pziecina   wrote If you don't want to learn how to code, then have you thought about using Adobe Muse? Oh good heavens!  Muse is on life support.  Using outdated software is counterproductive. Is Muse outdated though? Providing one uses the Muse responsive layout option, it is no more outdated than Dw's bootstrap option when it comes to being future proof. The next update for iPads, (will be available for iPads going back to iPad Air 2) will default to the desktop layout, even with sites created using bootstrap 4. Then we come to Dw's missing support for srcset, etc. No method of creating layouts for all browsers and the wide range of screen sizes and resolutions that can be used by end users is future proof, with any current 'easier option'. Yes, it may be easier to 'fix' a layout if it is hand coded, but Muse, Bootstrap or any other framework will require the person creating the site(s) to know how to 'fix' any problems, which means knowing how the code works, which is doubtfull for a large number of those using them, as much of the code is either 'unreadable for all intents and purposes' or there is so much of it that even someone who can code, doesn't know fully what is going on. ... View more

I'm going to make a suggestion that will probably upset a lot of people. If you don't want to learn how to code, then have you thought about using Adobe Muse? Yes, Muse is no longer being developed, but if you have a full CC subscription, and you remember to create your site using the responsive option, (do not use the adaptive method) then it is probably more suited to your requirements. No method of creating sites is future proof, but without learning to code you will always be in danger of any site you create failing at some point in the future, which may force you to not just learn how to code anyway, but may force you to rebuild the site for free. ... View more

Thanks Preran, But why do I have a bad feeling about you saying 'if the team does not beat you to it', (maybe as I got older I got more pessimistic' ). ... View more

osgood_  wrote Because its not a ticker its a 'typwriter' effect and css alone most probably can't do that So what's the difference, ticker or typewriter, one would simply replace the previous text with the new text. Or am I not understanding? ... View more