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pziecina
LEGEND
pziecina
LEGEND
Activity
‎Jul 12, 2019
06:34 AM
I'm just throwing ideas out. One can build all types of web sites/apps, but without a speciality, (user/product type) I doubt if the small site creator will be in buisness in 5 years or so, or at least not without 'cookie cutter' template/framework sites being the norm and only way to survive, (even then it will be a race to the bottom). The problem with layouts and presentation, is no longer the restrictions of browsers, but the limited knowledge of both designers and developers. How many who call themselves front end web designers have even taken a basic graphic design course, or how many back end developers have any knowledge of what is happening in their chosen language, (especially security) beyond what they have read in a book or watched on a video.
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‎Jul 12, 2019
05:40 AM
O/K, lets start with a small buisness with services/outlets in 3 different locations. Connecting them together only requires 3 MS Access licences, and a sql server on the web server. So the question I would ask web developers is, "how much do they know about building forms using MS Access"?, and making the MS Access code compatible with an sql server, (e.g. MySQL) on a web host server. A website would then have an acurate in/out of stock, and make it easier for the owner to see accurately what is happening, in real time across premises and on the web, (could even connect to Adobes 'Experiance' offerings). The next item is not layout, (should be using flexbox at least) but presentation. With the upcoming update to MS Edge, css shapes becomes a very real possibility, then comes the font-feature-settings, kerning, font fallbacks, (font stacks have become a thing of the past, but should they be?). Presentation of text on the web is one item that does not have enough attention by web designers/developers, but given that 90% of web usage is reading, (if one ignores selfies, and fun videos) making typography a selling point is a possibility, (the quick and easy site builders, cannot spent the time learning and doing).
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‎Jul 12, 2019
03:48 AM
osgood_ wrote So in effect what is happening we are mosty replacing 'acceptable/professional' quality , which enriches everyones lives, with poorer and poored amatuer quality. Yes and no. What is happening is that the web site requirements has changed, but many do not see what is happening. Years ago, companies would use an Access Db, (or even a spread sheet) to keep track of everything, now more are using a Web site/app to connect all their offices, outlets, control stock and most things that are the day to day requirements of running a buisness, but how many build sites/apps for small buisnesses that connect different locations together. It is also no longer acceptable, (or legal) to sell a website, and make claims to the client that cannot be achived for having a website. Most $5 - $500, (or even in some cases $ thousands) websites are not really required and the old, "you will get more customers/clients" claim that many designers/developers previously made, have been found to be false by too many small buisnesses. Even the design and feel of many websites has not changed from the early '00's, and from my discussion regarding change, it is obvious that most do not think it should. Even Birnous discussion a few weeks ago regarding which template to use, came down to a decission made for OS's that had been discontinued years ago. Someone looking for a website will not get much for $100, but the question is, 'would they get much more for $1000'?.
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‎Jul 11, 2019
02:56 PM
osgood_ wrote However it just denigrades the concept that a web-developer has or needs any skills beyond waking up in the morning, which even in the UK comes across load and clear. Not so long ago when I mentioned to my dentist I produced websites I was met with the abrupt reply 'oh right, anyone can do that these days'. Already, before any skill levels have been discussed its been decided in their mind its a worthless profession. Isn't that how the general public percieve most things to do with the web. People can create a facebook page, upload text and graphics, tell stories, convert word files to ebooks. All without the requirement of web designers, photographers, writers or publishers, even Adobe is on the bandwagon, with products like elements, porfolio, spark and upto last year Muse. MS Word took simple flyers out of the requirement for graphic designers years ago, digital camaras and now mobile devices with built in cameras, make professional photographers almost redundant for most requirements, cheap laser color printers make screen printers redundant for most general public requirement. The list could go on and on. Nothing we do stands still, but every profession and what they produce still exists though. Those who create that something that is above the 'run of the mill' will always find a market. There is no magic bullet to fix the decline in respect for web design/development, but those who create sites just for the local businesses, that do nothing more than say who, what, where they are, are in an ever declining market. For those new in the profession, they are joining in a time of change, and must up their game, (even those in the profession should stop looking for 'quick fixes' and start reassessing what they do).
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‎Jul 11, 2019
11:29 AM
osgood_ wrote I think what I'm trying to express is that websites popping up like fiverr.com, automated process like wix, webflow, bubble, frameworks, cheap plugins of every conceivable shape and size etc have contributed to the demise of the web-developer that accepted they would never get beyond a certain point BUT still possesed enough skill to command a reasonable developing job. Not everyone can reach the holy-grail of their chosen career, a lot more fail than acheive that status. Its a lot harder now than it ever was, not just in web-development, because of changing circumstances and the far greater skill expectations and requirements needed. I can agree with your point about wix, etc. But should that be a reason to stop learning new things, and simply accept ones lot in life. I don't think so, which is why I think programs like Dw, (or any other web dev program) should also provide alternatives to quick and easy solutions like BS, and support specs A.S.A.P. and not just sit around doing nothing to help those looking to offer clients more, (to put it simply - offer developers more selling points to the client) as better options to wix, etc.. As for not reaching the holy grail in chosen career - I never made it to director, but I'm still happy, (good pension, riverside drinking, lazing in the sun or sitting in the shade reading a book, what more could I ask for, (except even more money, more sunshine, more wine or beer, some people are never satisfied )).
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‎Jul 11, 2019
10:02 AM
osgood_ wrote Well what was once considered skilled work has become cheap factory work, a lot don't have time or the finances to retrain to achieve the necesssry standards to jump to the next level, many just fail to make the expected grade to secure a more skilled position. Expectations and the skills required these days are much higher than in previous generations. We all can think of excuses as to why people find it much harder these days. The simple truth is that to many stop learning at a certain point in life, (for whatever reason) and don't look at what is happening or going to happen in the future in their chosen profession. This is especially true in professions that have grown from the web, and its requirements. Code is just one part of the whole for commercial/enterprise sites/apps, but many small site designers/developers, (especially those relying just on frameworks and plug-ins) do not know or care what is happening or going to happen. You only have to go through posts in the Adobe forums, to see how far behind what is possible, or how it can be done that many people are.
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‎Jul 11, 2019
08:43 AM
osgood_ wrote Web development which was once high on the agenda as a possible career to follow has collapsed and is a casualty as a result, much like a lot of other industries which intoduced automated processes, where now fewer work and even less consider as a serious career option. If all someone does is aim for factory work, all they will get is factory work.
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‎Jul 11, 2019
07:53 AM
osgood_ wrote pziecina wrote There is still plenty of respect for developers, but only at the higher end of design/development There is but they are highly skilled. The abundance of positions, work, which were being filled by the mere-mortal web-developer have all but dispappeared. That is worth a discussion all of its own. The year before I retired completely, we advertised for a web developer and I am told the position is still open. We did not want much in our opinion, just someone over 30 years old, ex-military, and with a passion for creative thinking in html, css and js. The applicant was not even required to have a proven track record in web development, but must simply be able to show us what they had created themselves to prove compitance and ability, (it was for someone looking for a second career). The starting salary was £36,500.00, so not exactly low paid, but on an equivalent to what they would have been paid in aero engineering in the military. That is why I know that the number of web designers/developers in the UK/EU, who can work on enterprise sites/apps, is in short supply, and the standard for such are not being met by most. (Remember my post about the shortage a few months ago?). The work is there, but not the web designers/developers.
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‎Jul 11, 2019
04:32 AM
osgood_ wrote I wouldn't want to be starting out as web-developer now as it has such a low status attached to it. Only a few can command what their skill level is really worth these days. It was once an admirable and somewhat skilful profession at any level but accessibility to all and a choice from a world wide market has removed the respect. Why would anyone pay more than they have to for a quick and easy website? There is still plenty of respect for developers, but only at the higher end of design/development, and not for those building sites at the lower end of requirements. Static sites or even those using wordpress for cms, are no longer going to provide a good living as long as the typical quality of the site being built, (that includes the code) can be built by anyone in a day. The problem is that Dw mainly caters for those at the lower end, and offers no means of competing any higher in the development requirements, than those building the five dollar sites.
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‎Jul 11, 2019
01:29 AM
I wonder how much knowledge both the clients and those building the sites for them really have. Another example of why the lower end of the profession is failing. Edit - Also do not forget that there is no indication of where in the world, the people offering to build sites for $5 or $100 are based. There are many countries in which even $5 is a good days pay, and $100 is very good money. Adobe did not move development to India for any other reason, except it was cheaper. It's a world market now, even for companies like Adobe.
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‎Jul 10, 2019
02:41 PM
hans-g. wrote Servus I didn't know you lived in Bayern Hans? Whats the weather like there?
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‎Jul 10, 2019
11:50 AM
Your problem is Os, you have too much money . Seriously though, what many developers think they can earn without constant learning, compared with the reality these days, which requires one to know how to code to modern standards and keep learning, has a gap as big as the grand canyon. Anyway, I'm off to the river bank and my glass of wine, (or 2 or 3).
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‎Jul 10, 2019
11:16 AM
osgood_ wrote After all what you've been doing works, so why look for anything beyond that, even if you have the time to look for anything better, which I have to concede probably the majority don't. It's the chicken and the egg quandary. In order to gain the experiance to move onto medium or enterprise sites/apps, and the financial rewards they can bring, one must first prove oneself capable of doing so. But in order to survive and put food on the table, one must build sites as fast and easily as possible to do so. It all comes down to money, in the here and now, for the majority. That's why it's called a race to the bottom for clients at the lower end of web design/development.
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‎Jul 10, 2019
10:48 AM
BTW Os, You do know that you and me, are probably going to be the only poster in this discussion, who actually discuss the topic?
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‎Jul 10, 2019
10:43 AM
As I've said before, Dw has a serious lack of starter pages, and none that show examples of how html5 semantics with flexbox or even grids can be used. It is even possible to include css only components, but Dw ignores css except for what IE8 can do when it comes to components. Just giving users usable 'starter' code would show how little code is actually required to build a modern rwd site, (and how simple the code can be). As for a good coder being able to use Dw to build medium commercial or enterprise sites/apps, only if they have masochistic tendencies.
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‎Jul 10, 2019
08:32 AM
1 Upvote
The latter part of the video, does go on to say that in some circumstances it may be necessary to use a framework. I think it all depends on who the person is working for, on what they are developing, and finally the cost of the project. I would even go on to argue, that the typical user Dw is currently aimed at, is person(s) building sites/apps for themselves or at the lower end of the cost spectrum. I'd even argue that Dw is not the program to use for those building enterprise sites/apps, or even medium sizes commercial sites/apps, due to the limited, (narrow) scope in what it can do, (and is built to do) without having to turn to a number of alternative programs and solutions.
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‎Jul 10, 2019
05:48 AM
Abambo wrote This is where I would get nervous and hire a professional doing that for me. Even if it costs money, it will spare a lot of trouble afterwards. It's not the coding that is a proplem for experianced developers, but the legal requirement. What many forget is that the moment personal info is stored, then there is also a legal requirement to protect it. It gets even worse if any credit card details are stored, (even the last 4 digits) as the fines for any breach of security are now very expensive, (especially in the EU). That is why I personally would never use open source or easy to purchase code for such, as it is just that open to anyone.
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‎Jul 10, 2019
01:05 AM
To add to Bens answer - If you wish to connect the site to your billing you will have to be proficient in the following - javascript a server side language databases You will also have to know how to code PWAs, (progressive web apps) as in order to do billing, it will be necessary for the site/app to work off-line. This is necessary just incase of a network problem, otherwise billing will not be possible if the network goes down.
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‎Jul 09, 2019
04:06 AM
maenterprises wrote please modify mmhttpdb.php and mysql.php server script pages too with latest mysql commands so that server behavious will work again There is no point in updating the server script files to work with php7, as the SB's themselves will not work with php7.
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‎Jul 09, 2019
04:03 AM
2 Upvotes
The lack of fluid grids in the CC Dw offerings, would not be as bad as it is for those who built sites using them, if it was still possible to purchase Dw CS6 outright. As for Adobe ignoring Dw Ben, it is nothing new. The worst part though is that no one from Adobe/Dw managment is even willing to talk about 'what is wrong with Dw' openly, and I doubt if they are even interested.
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‎Jul 09, 2019
01:28 AM
BenPleysier wrote Paula knows that this cantankerous old sod is waiting for the final stage where he becomes dependent on others. All I can say is - +1
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‎Jul 08, 2019
09:54 AM
1 Upvote
For autoplay, the policy was changed in 2018 for Chrome, and other browsers followed some time later, see - https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2017/09/autoplay-policy-changes
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‎Jul 08, 2019
09:26 AM
1 Upvote
https://forums.adobe.com/people/Peter+Carr wrote pziecina you're posting on the wrong post It's a joke regarding age, that we ocassionally have in the forum. Translation for the younger posters - Ben cannot get a certificate of completion, because he is too old to learn. As the above also applies to me, no age prejudice can be claimed.
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‎Jul 08, 2019
08:02 AM
1 Upvote
BenPleysier wrote Will this entitle me to enter the world of 'professionals'. Sorry Ben, but according to the OP of this discussion - https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2636155 we are certainly to old to learn anything new. (could not remember the posters name ).
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‎Jul 08, 2019
05:21 AM
1 Upvote
BenPleysier wrote To answer the original post, this is where Lynda.com has moved to LinkedIn Learning: Online Courses for Creative, Technology, Business Skills Just did a search of Dw courses with linkedin, and this came up as a suggestion - https://www.linkedin.com/learning/learning-wix?trk=featured-topics-card_learning_card_title Just thinking back to a post you made a few weeks ago.
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‎Jul 06, 2019
02:33 AM
osgood_ wrote Dont know, dealing with images is a complex issue, l dont even think srcset is being widely used mainstream yet, as producing multiple sized images, which may need variable dimensions for optimal viewing, in itself is problematical, even more so left in the hands of client input. The main problem with srcset and images, is that browsers now do a very good job of image optimization via the built in optimization routines, plus there is a lot of miss-information out there regarding how browsers handle images. One of the myths is that a browser on a hi-dpi screen will automatically 'adjust the image' to compensate between a normal, (96ppi) hd screen and a hi-dpi screen, (by using 1 image pixel = 4 screen pixed) which is untrue, as images are displayed at 1px = 1 px, no matter what the screen resolution. For those who do not believe that, create an image at 72/96ppi, turn off all browser image optimization, (using css) add no other css, just the image in a html page, and compare the size of the image on a 4k screen with a standard hd screen, (note you cannot turn image optimization off in IE/Edge at the moment).
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‎Jul 05, 2019
06:15 AM
osgood_ wrote Recently I was watching a reasonably respected developer on youtube (75000+ followers). He was teaching lazy load of images. The javascript workflow used was really rather obtuse and unnecessary, using 3 times the amount of code that was required.........so regardless of where you look its hugley difficult to seperate the wheat from the chaff. The underlying problem with web-development is there are just too many ways and workflow, all which produce the same result and everyone thinks their way is the best I wonder what will happen in a years time regarding 'lazy load of images', as all browsers are starting work on the html5 method, (built into browsers) - https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/3752 Which on past performance of anything to do with images beyond the img tag, Dw will never get support for, and frameworks will ignore.
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‎Jul 05, 2019
03:30 AM
I'm talking about Dw, its lack of development, missing features, (or half hearted implementations) and Dw managment and advisors lack of knowledge regarding what is required. I would not recommend bootstrap, but no matter what a Dw user tries to learn or do, that is not for IE8, (or below) they are only left with the option of using bootstrap. Yes, one does not require code hints or code completion, but telling a user when such aids do not exist to learn other ways of doing something, is something not many will do, so it teaches them nothing. Some who supply answers in this forum have learned what is required over 20+ years, but for those without the experiance, they are forced by Dw to use bootstrap, and lets be honest, even for experianced coders learning from bootstraps code is difficult, so for a beginner it must be almost impossible.
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‎Jul 05, 2019
02:12 AM
1 Upvote
I don't think bootstrap is the problem, the real problem goes back to the first post in this discussion, and the other discussion in which myself and Birnou are asking for a discussion about the future of Dw with the Dw managment, (not the roadmap). People say that any text editor can be used to produce web sites/apps, but the old adage of 'the workman is only as good as his tools', applies just as much to web development as any other profession. If a developer wishes to learn, (and then apply) how to use a html, css, (etc) features that they have not used before, it is difficult to do so if the program they are using, (Dw in this case) does not offer any support, or even worse, they do not know where to find good documentation and examples. Dw offered almost nothing that went beyond development as it was before html5 and css3, (pre modern features and mobile era). Even js and php was stuck in the 90's with Dw. The incorporation of the Brackets code editor was supposed to fix that, but instead the Brackets code editor inclussion in Dw was so badly done, that it would have been better had they not bothered. Without the tools the developer will struggle to keep up. Offering only simple options, (BS in Dw's case) without any other options, means that innovation or learning stops for most.
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‎Jul 04, 2019
03:01 AM
https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u wrote it is not uncommon to use n-1 versions for so many reasons. And as far as Bootstrap is concerned, the most relevant answer I received was the warning about browser support. It is true that the user target (remember that it is mainly farmers) could be largely impacted if BS4 is used No flexbox support would mean that they are using windows xp or vista. Yes it is true that BS4s css would have to be modified to support IE10 or other very old browsers and mobile devices flexbox implementations, but that should be easy to do. Except for the lack of knowledge and the reluctance to use flexbox by many, (especially by Dw users) flexbox has been usable for over 8 years. Note: It is true that flexbox was only fully usable 6 years ago, but that was because of firefox.
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