Dreamweaver Video Tutorials ?

[Peter Carr]

Does anybody know of any indepth video tutorials for Dreamweaver ? The ones provided by Dreamweaver are very basic and barely scratch the surface. The tutorials on Lynda.com/LinkedIn seemed to have been removed.

[B i r n o u]

osgood_  a écrit

I should expect an overly complex answer from someone that uses an overly complex workflow

As for simple back-ups I guess that comes down to if you're organised or not and organisation obviously doesnt appear to be one of your strong points so you'd rather hand that off to 'something' else. Each to his/her own I guess.

I've never found the technology complicated or complex.

In principle, each tool (since tools are the very essence of what creates technology, unlike nature and elements), so in principle each tool provides an answer to a need.

the organization remains a global and general paradigm that floats above the tools and their uses.

It is true that the right tools do not make good workers, but to those who know how to use them they are profitable and allow them to gain flexibility, quality and time.

Now I'm later, I have to go, I hear all my friends jumping in the water, and I'm still waiting for a huge PDF conversion to be done... the bell rings... it's done ... so see you later guys... I have a glass of rhum that wait me under a lemon slide...  see you

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

osgood_   a écrit

I should expect an overly complex answer from someone that uses an overly complex workflow

As for simple back-ups I guess that comes down to if you're organised or not and organisation obviously doesnt appear to be one of your strong points so you'd rather hand that off to 'something' else. Each to his/her own I guess.

I've never found the technology complicated or complex.

In principle, each tool (since tools are the very essence of what creates technology, unlike nature and elements), so in principle each tool provides an answer to a need.

the organization remains a global and general paradigm that floats above the tools and their uses.

It is true that the right tools do not make good workers, but to those who know how to use them they are profitable and allow them to gain flexibility, quality and time.

Now I'm later, I have to go, I hear all my friends jumping in the water, and I'm still waiting for a huge PDF conversion to be done... the bell rings... it's done ... so see you later guys... I have a glass of rhum that wait me under a lemon slide...  see you

I didnt say the technology was complicated or complex, I said your answer to a simple question was.

Actually can anyone interpret, beyond the first sentence, what this guy is trying to express. Hands up.....No. If anyone can then please simplify it so I and others can understand.

I'll anwer one that I can understand. 'Profitable' in the sense financially, for the developer........just very glad you're not my developer of choice - 90% of the budget would be swallowed up using unecessary workflows.

[pziecina]

Actually Os, I can understand what Birnou is saying. The problem is not so much interpretation but one of 'where Birnou is coming from', (no insult intended to both of you).

Birnou is using a team approach to his workflow, (only my opinion) and you are using a 'lone developers' workflow, (again only my opinion) and even though both have there points, they are not compatible, or usable in all circumstances, (again my opinion).

But. If a workflow works for the individual, then that is the one to use.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

Birnou is using a team approach to his workflow, (only my opinion) and you are using a 'lone developers' workflow, (again only my opinion) and even though both have there points, they are not compatible, or usable in all circumstances, (again my opinion).

And I said in ALL of my posts that is where GIT, if anywhere, is best applied, I'd be stupid to think not, yet Birnou always fails to accept a workflow other than the team environment that he works in, it's what I call a blanket approach, not a bespoke one. Unfortuantely the majority of web-developers seem to gravitate towards this mind-set. I dont know why, maybe its just to do with too much dependencies these days, it's warping their mind.

Plus I update my linked css, javascript etc files constantly which would mean to use GIT effectively/appropriately you would have to update every small change to reflect/comment the change in each linked file. If I had to do that, as I already stated, I'd be spending half the day adding, staging and commiting, observing the status of the files etc. It shouldnt just be about committing a module you have been working on.

[pziecina]

What I always find interesting, (and telling) when workflows are discussed, is that very little mention is made about the type and size of the site/app being produced, which are probably the most significant items that decides a workflow.

If you look at the post from Birnou, (#55 I think) he mentions the site/app specifications. By saying there is a specification one has then to decide what the specification requires in order to be compliant with the least hassle with the specification. For the avarage small buisness site, we are probably talking of the design and a cms. On a slightly more complexed site it may include functionality, such as how a searcg feature should work, and product filters, (type, colour, price). So the specification will include more, and more features the larger and more complexed the site becomes.

My argument would be, that for a small site, (even with a cms) git can be overkill, as just the setting up, and remembering what is what, will take up more time than commenting the code and making notes. Once one moves to a large much more complexed site/app, git in many cases becomes a tool for team members, (from developer to photographer) that could be used as part of the project managment, (if there is more than one person) as overall project management should be the responsibility of one person, (normally the manager, but does not have to be).

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

My argument would be, that for a small site, (even with a cms) git can be overkill, as just the setting up, and remembering what is what, will take up more time than commenting the code and making notes. Once one moves to a large much more complexed site/app, git in many cases becomes a tool for team members, (from developer to photographer) that could be used as part of the project managment, (if there is more than one person) as overall project management should be the responsibility of one person, (normally the manager, but does not have to be).

Thats really my view. I've never worked in a team and have zero desire to do so. What is frustrating is those that do work in a team seem to think a team workflow approach should apply to a small independent project/developer, hence you get overly complicated solutions for something which requires no more than the basics.

Im not saying Git is irrelevent because IF you feel the need to use it then you should do so. I just ponder on how useful it is in certain situations and why waste unnecessary time and channeling effort into what is largely an administrative task, rather than actually applying your time and engery into the development process. Also I really think if you are using Git then why use it unless you are documenting every conceiveable change, to some extent it becomes pointless if you dont.

I guess to me it is one of those additions that could be included along with Sass.................fluff.

Im sure both in the right circumstances have benefits, its really about being able to identify those circumstances rather than just throwing a blanket over them all.

You know what, its just about poorly educated developers, who mainly these days take their lead from the giants and because the giants are deploying these methods they think its suitable for deploying on their small project. It that nasty trickle down effect. Nearly everything mainstream we use today started life for a specific purpose, not a mainstream one, including Git.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

I guess to me it is one of those additions that could be included along with Sass.................fluff.

Im sure both in the right circumstances have benefits, its really about being able to identify those circumstances rather than just throwing a blanket over them all.

You know what, its just about poorly educated developers, who mainly these days take their lead from the giants and because the giants are deploying these methods they think its suitable for deploying on their small project. It that nasty trickle down effect. Nearly everything mainstream we use today started life for a specific purpose, not a mainstream one, including Git.

If a developer is not self employed, then it may be worth them learning how to use git, even when they are doing small sites. Simply because in a team/ corporate environment they may have to work using git or some other form of workflow, so to progress up the pay scale, git and/or project managment is a necessity, (remember the shortage of web designers/developers in the EU).

Sass, (any css pre/post-processors) are another of those 'fads' whose time has just about run out. The ability to use variables and mix-ins, was a necessity 5-10 years ago, but with auto-prefixers and css having its own variables now, their use is no longer the time saver that it once was.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

If a developer is not self employed, then it may be worth them learning how to use git, even when they are doing small sites. Simply because in a team/ corporate environment they may have to work using git or some other form of workflow, so to progress up the pay scale, git and/or project managment is a necessity, (remember the shortage of web designers/developers in the EU).

I agree with that, you should make time as a developer to at least investigate as much as you can, regardless of if you are employed or self-employed, whether you agree with a workflow or not. It gives you a better understanding of the industry and allows you to participate in discussions such as this where different views can be aired.  IF you are considering a career in web-development then at some point you may well have no option but to be employed, where you have to follow procedures, unlike when you are self-employed.

pziecina  wrote

Sass, (any css pre/post-processors) are another of those 'fads' whose time has just about run out. The ability to use variables and mix-ins, was a necessity 5-10 years ago, but with auto-prefixers and css having its own variables now, their use is no longer the time saver that it once was.

Lots of fads, that's for sure.

[B i r n o u]

osgood_  a écrit

Actually can anyone interpret, beyond the first sentence, what this guy is trying to express. Hands up.....No. If anyone can then please simplify it so I and others can understand.

I'll anwer one that I can understand. 'Profitable' in the sense financially, for the developer........just very glad you're not my developer of choice - 90% of the budget would be swallowed up using unecessary workflows.

it seems that as soon as a subject escapes you (a subject usually based on certain technologies that are not familiar to you) you become a little condescending in your remarks.

your answers are of the type: "I don't understand what he says", or "go learn English before answering me" or "don't post on an English forum"... by talking to others about me, instead of directly asking me the question.

in short, we cannot say that the failure to put oneself within the reach of others is a must in some exchanges. I find that your comments are, as usual, denigrating, even aggressive.

as I said at the beginning of this message, it would almost give the impression that when a subject escapes you it makes you angry!

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

osgood_   a écrit

Actually can anyone interpret, beyond the first sentence, what this guy is trying to express. Hands up.....No. If anyone can then please simplify it so I and others can understand.

I'll anwer one that I can understand. 'Profitable' in the sense financially, for the developer........just very glad you're not my developer of choice - 90% of the budget would be swallowed up using unecessary workflows.

it seems that as soon as a subject escapes you (a subject usually based on certain technologies that are not familiar to you) you become a little condescending in your remarks.

your answers are of the type: "I don't understand what he says", or "go learn English before answering me" or "don't post on an English forum"... by talking to others about me, instead of directly asking me the question.

in short, we cannot say that the failure to put oneself within the reach of others is a must in some exchanges. I find that your comments are, as usual, denigrating, even aggressive.

as I said at the beginning of this message, it would almost give the impression that when a subject escapes you it makes you angry!

If a subject wasnt familiar to me I wouldn't be discussing its value (or not) in such depth, so that shoots your assumptions down in flames and is arrogant on your part to suggest so. I'll say no more than the truth sometime hurts and nobody wants to hear it, certainly it seems not you.

No I'm not angry. I seriously cannot understand what you write a lot of the time, perhaps you do it deliberately in response to a subject escaping you?

[B i r n o u]

pziecina  a écrit

For a lone developer requiring version management then they must be developing more than small buisness sites, (even enterprise sites can be developed by the lone developer). A much better tool would be some form of project managment tool, with the html, etc. files required for the project correctly 'filed and commented'.

A project managment tool could also be used from version control, but a version control cannot be used for project managment.

However, we are talking Dw here, so project managment is like asking for full html5 support. Never going to happen.

sorry we get lost...

a version management tool simply allows to evolve the functionalities of a site, or an application, without compromising the stability of the current version

the version management tool allows us to know with precision all the modifications made to all the files and control their merge with the appropriate files

that's it, no more, no less.. it only does that but it does it well...

and it is ONE of the necessary tools (I didn't say mandatory) ...

Paula what you're talking about , project mangement, is another type of tool... and it takes us away from the initial discussion about DW and GIT

[pziecina]

Sorry Birnou, my thinking always jumps around to various requirements before I land on the one I want, (the problem with that, is that everyone else misses the thought indetween).

My argument against git is that for a lone developer it can be more trouble than it is worth. But, if that lone developer wishes to 'break into' developing enterprise level sites, then project managment should take priority over version control.

With a proper project managment tool, everything that one can do with git, can be done with the project managment tool, even file merging and comparison, (with colour usage to indicate, who, why, what, where, when) on all files and client/project resources/assets, and all communications between each and all.

That's how I came to change from version control and git, to project managment.

It's Just me Birnou .

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

With a proper project managment tool, everything that one can do with git, can be done with the project managment tool, even file merging and comparison, (with colour usage to indicate, who, why, what, where, when) on all files and client/project resources/assets, and all communications between each and all.

Now you're talkin 'Microsoft Word' tracking........very advanced

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

pziecina   wrote

With a proper project managment tool, everything that one can do with git, can be done with the project managment tool, even file merging and comparison, (with colour usage to indicate, who, why, what, where, when) on all files and client/project resources/assets, and all communications between each and all.

Now you're talkin 'Microsoft Word' tracking........very advanced

Very similar, (I use MS Project, so not surprising).

The thing is that a project managment tool, would not only do everything, everyone thinks is grat about git, but would also incorporate every part of the project also. I admit MS Project is expensive, but when VS Studio is included in the price, plus MS Office, (with visio) the overall cost for a developer, developing enterprise sites, is easilly comparible to a CC + Wappler subscription.

Ignore that price comparison.

I have just checked, MS Project costs less than a single Dw subscription.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

osgood_   wrote

pziecina    wrote

With a proper project managment tool, everything that one can do with git, can be done with the project managment tool, even file merging and comparison, (with colour usage to indicate, who, why, what, where, when) on all files and client/project resources/assets, and all communications between each and all.

Now you're talkin 'Microsoft Word' tracking........very advanced

Very similar, (I use MS Project, so not surprising).

The thing is that a project managment tool, would not only do everything, everyone thinks is grat about git, but would also incorporate every part of the project also. I admit MS Project is expensive, but when VS Studio is included in the price, plus MS Office, (with visio) the overall cost for a developer, developing enterprise sites, is easilly comparible to a CC + Wappler subscription.

Well I've had the situation where I've created a git repository using one bit of software which is then not recognised by another bit of software that I frequently use. I don't know enough about why that was but some of these bits of software have their own unique ways and create 'hidden' folders and files in the site folder.

I guess the way would be to just use the independent terminal not the git implementation in the software but hey that takes the fun away! I like to frequently change things up as I use 2 or 3 editors daily, maybe even more.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

I like to frequently change things up as I use 2 or 3 editors daily, maybe even more.

MS Project even has an extension for time tracking, in which you can tell it to monitor which and when programs are used.

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

osgood_   a écrit

Hummm git.....who the **** uses git, maybe if you work in a large team but then I dont see a professional team using DW. I dont have time as a single developer to keep commiting, adding and pushing, writing comments etc. I'm a developer not an administator.

well, I am a ****, as I use GIT

I don't think we should miss the fact that GIT is first and foremost a versioning tool, not just a team tool only.

so, even working alone, it is a really valuable tool. I don't want to teach you life , and please, see in my remarks only an open door to the use of GIT to make code management more flexible when adding features to your sites or applications

let's say your site is online, working and the work is finished, at least the current module is finished.

you want to add a modification, or a new feature to the site.

no problem, you create a branch of the current project (which is by default the master), and you make all the necessary changes to this branch.

these modifications can concern dozens of (linked) files without affecting the master.

you can create as many branches as you want from either the branches created or from the master again... which allows you to do many different tests and consider as many alternative approaches as necessary

once one of the branches satisfies you, you have a magic GIT tool that allows you to merge the desired branches together, or with the master... no doubt about which file has been modified, where, or by what, who, when or how... etc... everything remains 100% operational flexible and so easy to use

I have no problem with version control in a team environment. Unfortuantely it has to be there as usually no-one in a team knows what the other is doing or has done, so some relevant 'comments' about what has been added, updated, deleted since they last worked on a page will be of huge benefit  but only because they are working in the 'dark' NOT something that as a lone developer I will ever be doing and therefore version control its largely irrelevant for a lone developer.

I would be spending copious amounts of time every day GITTING - writing comments, adding, commiting - about exactly what code has been introduced, taken away, and you need to do that after every tiny change/update, its no good waiting an hour or at the end of a session because by that time you will have forgotten exactly what you did and a comment like 'Changed a load of shite' isnt exactly useful.

The time I have I prefer to use wisely and take onboard somethimg that is actually going to make a difference, like learning to code, yes I know that sounds rather strange in this day and age but I regard myself first and foremost as being a developer NOT an administrator.

[B i r n o u]

osgood_  a écrit

I have no problem with version control in a team environment. Unfortuantely it has to be there as usually no-one in a team knows what the other is doing or has done, so some relevant 'comments' about what has been added, updated, deleted since they last worked on a page will be of huge benefit  but only because they are working in the 'dark' NOT something that as a lone developer I will ever be doing and therefore version control its largely irrelevant for a lone developer.

nope , I 'm not sharing your point... but its not a problem, I don't try to convince you.

[B i r n o u]

osgood_  a écrit

I would be spending copious amounts of time every day GITTING - writing comments, adding, commiting - about exactly what code has been introduced, taken away, and you need to do that after every tiny change/update, its no good waiting an hour or at the end of a session because by that time you will have forgotten exactly what you did and a comment like 'Changed a load of shite' isnt exactly useful.

gloups... commit is just needed when you reach a step... no need to commit every single line of code...

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

osgood_   a écrit

I would be spending copious amounts of time every day GITTING - writing comments, adding, commiting - about exactly what code has been introduced, taken away, and you need to do that after every tiny change/update, its no good waiting an hour or at the end of a session because by that time you will have forgotten exactly what you did and a comment like 'Changed a load of shite' isnt exactly useful.

gloups... commit is just needed when you reach a step... no need to commit every single line of code...

So I take 2 hours to reach that step, made several changes, you know stopped for a cuppa and then a beer and sandwich by the river what do I write as the comment..........humm afer 5 mins I've already forgotten the first changs so it become irrelevant..........ok I'll just forget the first change I wont document that or the second or third......

[B i r n o u]

osgood_  a écrit

The time I have I prefer to use wisely and take onboard somethimg that is actually going to make a difference, like learning to code, yes I know that sounds rather strange in this day and age but I regard myself first and foremost as being a developer NOT an administrator.

we definitly have a different vision of the job.. since years that I use version control, it saved me so much time and money compare to the manual save and secure copy for updating functionnalities and features...

then when I moved to GIT from SVN... it was going from dark to light.... thanks tools....

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

we definitly have a different vision of the job.. since years that I use version control, it saved me so much time and money compare to the manual save and secure copy for updating functionnalities and features...

We do. I like to optimise my time, not waste it on over-complex workflows when they are not needed. I'll leave time wasting to others. It could be you were so slow and think youre saving time

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

then when I moved to GIT from SVN... it was going from dark to light.... thanks tools....

So much dependency - just makes me feel less skilled.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

The problem for Dw though, is that the experiance cloud is aimed at enterprise sites, which is not the type of site Dw can develop.

As I said, Adobe are seemingly not interested in small website usage any longer, where once DW dominated and was a respected product, its unfortuanetly laughed at now by anyone with any web development experience. Adobe are focussing on companies with larger scale requirements which generates more income than they can make taking small slices of the cake when having to compete with more companies which have infiltrated the web-developemnt arena.

One can only hope they may reconsider at some point, take note of InDesign and how that enabled them to came back to conquer the market in the DTP arean.

[pziecina]

We are probably once again at the point we should call Preran​ in, as along with the discussion in https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2605211 the Dw/Adobe managment may wish to consider the points in this discussion, (including the Dw tutorials being too basic).

[Nancy OShea]

Video tutorials tend to gloss over the finer points because humans have the attention span of a goldfish.  It's no accident that Adobe TV episodes are only 3-8 minutes long.

Trends in web and app development  could easily fill many volumes. Stay informed & read everything you can.  Decide which areas are important to you and then refine your web searches to specific topics of interest.  

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