Inspiring

Answered

Any one pre-order the new X299 motherboard with an Intel I9 processor?

Forum|Forum|8 years ago
June 19, 2017
6 replies
5949 views

Just curious how many people jump at these new super components. They are high on my wish list but I have to justify every dollar these days.

This topic has been closed for replies.

Correct answer RoninEdits

x299 is being pushed out early to compete with amd, so i would advise waiting a month or two after the release to see if any issues are found. the big price drops and new 12-18 core cpu's are a response to competition from amd. so anyone buying intel should send a thank you to amd, as amd have saved them $400-700+ by forcing intel to lower prices.

RoninEdits

Inspiring

photoshop and lightroom articles from puget are out

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Photoshop-CC-2017-1-1-CPU-Comparison-Skylake-X-Kaby-Lake-X-Broadwell-E-Skylak…

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Lightroom-CC-2015-10-1-CPU-Comparison-Skylake-X-Kaby-Lake-X-Broadwell-E-Skyla…

nothing too new, the higher clock speeds in the intel 4-core still rule. they do however recommend spending extra to get the x299 platform 4 core i7-7740k for a small performance boost, but i don't think most would spend the extra for the very small gain. puget also makes the case that the x299 platform is worth it for an upgrade path with the 4 core, but anyone buying it for that reason and from puget should just buy the higher core cpu to begin with. otherwise if money is that tight just buy an off-the-shelf pc for a fraction of the price.

the intel skylake-x 8-core vs last gen broadwell-e 8-core shows a 5-13% performance increase in the various benchmarks. which again falls in line with the 10% clock speed increase. the new 6 core runs at 3.5ghz vs the old 40-lane 6 core at 3.6ghz, and as it turns out the new cpu is slightly slower. these results for the new skylake-x cpu's suggest there is basically zero ipc gain for skylake-x. makes me wonder what intel is going to do for future cpu's. they can't keep cranking up the clocks for performance improvements unless they get their power usage and temps under control.

if we go with the idea that ipc gains are basically zero, we can then compare the old broadwell-e 6-core at 3.6ghz vs the new 8-core skylake-x at 3.6ghz to see any benefits for 6 vs 8 cores in adobe software. premiere shows a 24% gain in overall export performance for the extra 2 cores, but appears to have no difference in real-time playback. lightroom shows a 4-15% difference in the overall average for the extra 2 cpu cores. photoshop shows a 1-10% in overall performance, with 8% for the general tasks, for the extra 2 cpu cores. so it looks like the intel 8-core for an extra $200 is a good option for all these apps over the 6-core. for those on a tight budget there is amd ryzen 6-8 cores and perhaps the rumored intel coffee lake 6-core.

RoninEdits

Inspiring

an update video from der8auer on the vrm issue. he did test several psu's and motherboards, so its not that. its high-to-extreme overclocking settings that are pushing too much voltage and throttling the vrm and/or cpu.

Trevor.Dennis

Community Expert

RoninEdits wrote
an update video from der8auer on the vrm issue.
[snip]

Impressive. He really goes into some detail, and qualifies and backs up his previous findings. I especially liked the comment about the reviewer who claimed to dispute his findings by running uberfast without any overheating issues, but didn't even realise that the CPU was throttling. Even if you don't intend to radically overclock an i9X, you would still want decent safety margins for the sake of system longevity. He also made a good point near the end of the video where he shows a board with a much lower power consumption, but has much more efficient heatsink(s) for its VRM.

I learned a wee bit about building as well with the large radiator mounted on the left side case cover, and the 3.5 bays stripped out for maximum airflow. I still have a few 3.5 HDDs, but I would like to phase out the internals.

RoninEdits

Inspiring

some more news for x299 motherboards. it seems that due to the massive power draw from skylake-x that if planning on overclocking at all a motherboard with a 8pin+4pin should be used. cheapest motherboard with that appears to be $300. also since the x299 platform was rushed by intel, it seems the motherboard mfg's didn't have time to properly test their designs and many motherboard vrm's are overheating. a motherboard designed properly to handle high-to-extreme overclocks could be in the $400-600 range. large noctua air coolers can help keep the vrm cool, but cannot keep up with cpu temps on higher overclocks. cryorig makes an AIO with a fan on it to cool the motherboard, but there are also several reports of cryorig quality being hit or miss. bottom line, anyone planning on overclocking will need to do their homework before buying parts.

jasonvp

Inspiring

RoninEdits wrote
it seems the motherboard mfg's didn't have time to properly test their designs and many motherboard vrm's are overheating.

Running hot: yes. Overheating: no. The VRMs are good to at least 120ºC and the temps measured so far are ~100º. It's toasty for sure, but not overheating to the point of damage or danger. Get away from the reviewers and read what the enthusiasts are doing. They're overclocking the snot out of the CPUs without any issues whatsoever.

bottom line, anyone planning on overclocking will need to do their homework before buying parts.

This is always true, of course. And sorry to those that don't like or want to water cool, but you're going to be left in the dust. You have to get over your dislike/fear/distaste for water cooling if you're going to play in the X299 world with higher clock rates. The CPUs are going to run hotter, and your air cooler won't suffice. It might even make sense to do a single block for the CPU and the motherboard combined.

Of course, those of us that adopted to water cooling very early on (such as myself) won't have an issue at all. The only challenge I can see for myself is biting the bullet and attempting to de-lid the CPU for further cooling. That's something I'm terrified of doing...

jasonvp

Inspiring

From what I understand, der8auer is one of the most respected overclockers in the business, respected enough to be widely quoted by a heap of hardware blogs) and he tested three different motherboards.

He makes the point that the whole X299 i9X thing has been rushed to get ahead of AMD's Threadripper, and that the motherboard manufacturers did not have time to properly design thew board they suddenly had to get ready for Computex. I suspect that those boards that were announced since Computex tried very hard to get them done in time but failed. However, we now have some time before Intel releases even the 7900X and below CPUs, and more time still before the 7920X and above CPUs, and the motherboard manufacturers will sort out issues like VRM heat sinks and CPU power lead connectors.

I am committed to a new build, and have a budget of up to NZ$10K, but I hope to manage with under NZ$8K up front because I'll use my current GTX970 while waiting for the GTX1100 series to be released, and I have a, unused Corsair 850W Gold power supply. At the moment I have no idea what board I'll use, but I will absolutely take into account the findings of der8auer, Linus Tech, Tom's Hardware, Puget Systems etc. Are you suggesting that we should ignore the information coming from those sources?

In the conclusion to this evaluation of X299 and 7900X, Puget Systems states:

Where are your X299 systems?

We plan on moving our workstations to X299 in the near future, but we are currently still evaluating and qualifying the different motherboards, CPUs, and related hardware. Puget Systems is committed to only bringing a product to market that is mature and reliable so we rarely offer new hardware immediately at launch. If you are interested in X299 and wish to be notified when we have completed our qualification process, feel free to save a configuration from one of our Lightroom workstations listed below with notes in the comment field expressing your interest in X299. Or simply send us an email at sales@pugetsystems.com

I'll be putting a lot of weight of what they go with.

Trevor.Dennis wrote
From what I understand, der8auer is one of the most respected overclockers in the business, respected enough to be widely quoted by a heap of hardware blogs) and he tested three different motherboards

Again: none of those temperatures are in the danger zone for VRMs. They're good for 120ºC if not higher. This is a bit of panic and hysteria for no real good reason.

Are you suggesting that we should ignore the information coming from those sources?

I'm suggesting that you beware of the source and question it always. In some cases, as in here: they're quoting the same guy and making a big deal over it. There are plenty of cases on LTT, for example, of folks buying high(er) quality motherboards with excellent VRM heatsinks, and overclocking the snot out of their new 7900X chips.

Ultimately you're going to believe whichever source or sources you choose. I'd suggest taking care in making snap decisions based on early and incomplete data, and just wait to see what shakes out. I'd also recommend that, if you're going to dip your toe into the X299 waters, you spend a lot of money on a good motherboard. Don't buy ASUS' least expensive board. Or MSI's. Or Gigabyte's. Buy their most expensive board. There's usually a reason for the cost difference, and in some cases it comes down to different heatsink configurations.

I'm also not disputing timeliness of the release or any such thing. I'm not going to get into that debate whatsoever. Further, there may very well be future optimizations of the chipset, though that does seem less likely. Ultimately, my recommendation stands: spend the money. Go expensive or go home.

And don't immediately discount water cooling, either. It makes a world of difference once you get over that initial fear phase and just do it. Again, as with a lot of other PC components: if you choose cheap and/or inexpensive water cooling components, you're just asking for trouble. Buy quality parts and assemble the loop(s) yourself with patience and care, and you'll have a system that makes near-to zero noise, and cools infinitely better than air alone can.

RoninEdits

Inspiring

this just came out,

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Premiere-Pro-CC-2017-1-2-CPU-Comparison-Skylake-X-Kaby-Lake-X-Broadwell-E-Sky…

it appears skylake-X is between 5-10% faster than broadwell-E. the performance gains appears to be linked to the faster default clock speeds of skylake-X, which is also around 10% higher. for the most part puget paints intel in a positive light in their article and continues to dismiss amd ryzen. the benchmarks show the intel 8-core around 20% faster than the amd ryzen 1700x, but it costs 50% more. of course there will be bigger differences in performance when overclocking in favor of intel, but also more value for amd when overclocking the entry level amd 8-core cpu at 1/2 the price. the cost of the motherboards for x299 are also around 2-3x as expensive vs amd x370, which creates an even bigger price gap.

Trevor.Dennis

Community Expert

I found the Puget Systems X299 article twenty minutes ago, but you beat me to it. I'd also read their evaluation for Ryzen 1700 and 1800 with Photoshop, which is what I use more than any other app by a big margin, and they came down in favour of Intel because of the higher clock speeds (because most Photoshop functions are lightly threaded).

Your round up and evaluation of X299 was very useful to me, so thanks for that. Although I am flat out trying to get to speed with it all, I started with minimal knowledge, and have some holes. I'd really appreciate a wee explanation of the various X299 lanes, whether it be 16/8/4, 8/8/8 or whatever. What should we look for?

I have read several reports questioning the Kaby Lake implementation with X299, with a hard hitting video from Linus being one of the most interesting. You have to laugh at his OTT presentation.

You mentioned some very big numbers with liquid cooling (280, 360). Is that using ganged radiators in series? How do you even fit so much radiator? On the top and front of the case is my guess, but it sounds insane!

I am not entirely sure about the Intel raid Dongle, but ISTR reading twos stages with costs of $99 and $299, and that it is to avoid clashes undercutting Xeon server systems. I don't know ho that would work out, and with the now greatly reduced cost of the high end i9X processors, you'd still be saving dollars after paying a $299 surcharge. Are Intel NVMe drives really that inferior to Samsung Pro/EVO?

I am also not sure if the Intel only M.2 drives applies right across the board, or kicks in with the raid configurations that require the Dongles? It is probably wishful thinking on my part, as if I went with a raid set up, it would be a raid0. Do you guys remember Noel Carboni? Before he gave up with the Adobe forums, he'd built a raid0 using six SSDs and was using it for everything. Note he did not do any video editing.

The Pugot Systems test used the i9-7900X, which is what all the other reviews we have so far were using. My plan is to spend the other $300 and get the 7920X, although I am waiting for the full specs to be released before committing. The bottom line is that I don't _really_ need 12 cores, and if they lead to lower max boost speed, then that would make it a bad choice.

RoninEdits

Inspiring

toms hardware did their review.

Intel Core i9-7900X Review: Meet Skylake-X - Tom's Hardware

for their photoshop heavy test the new skylake-X cpu did worse than all the others. it will be interesting to see what puget finds when they release their photoshop article on skylake-x. skylake-x has some new architecture which might be causing some problems. its also a rushed release, so there might be some bios updates that help with problems like these.

since you mostly work on photoshop and want the highest clock speeds, you might want to wait for coffee lake on the main stream platform. the rumors are intel will release a 6 core for the first time on its main stream platform. if they can make the 6 core overclock like the 4 core cpu's, then it might be very fast.

280 & 360 rads are single rads and about the largest offered by AIO's. corsair is popular choice for AIO's, but i don't think they sell a 360. some people are reporting for high to extreme overclocking on skylake-X it will take custom liquid cooling for better cooling vs AIO's.

cpu pcie lanes with x299 will mostly be for video cards, but could be used for other cards like a raid card, thunderbolt 3, or video i/o. if you just plan on using a single video card, it will use 16 lanes. most builds here will be fine with the 28 lane cpu's, which can run two or three cards with the right motherboard. the main stream platform cpu's have 16 pcie lanes and can run two cards at x8/x8 with the right motherboard.

i've also seen several reviewers trash kaby lake-x. i could possibly see the i7 as it does overclock slightly higher, but to offer an i5 on a high end platform is dumb. i still think it only makes sense if intel plans to remove overclocking from their main stream platform and force all overclockers to buy expensive x299 motherboards.

right now, yes samsung ssd's are that much better than intel's. when intel releases larger optane ssd's they might be competitive, but we will have to see the reviews. the motherboard raid with m.2 is rumored to require intel m.2's, but samsung's and others should work if not using raid or using windows raid.

RoninEdits

Inspiring

here is some random x299 info for anyone interested. note- these are just from news stories i've read, so i cannot confirm these.

1) intel decided to save some pennies and therefore skylake-x will not have soldered on IHS's. so in addition to very high watts when overclocked, folks are reporting very high temps. 280-360+ mm liquid cooling may be more commonplace for anyone overclocking.

2) intel has been changing chipset compatibility with xeon cpu's, removing xeon support from main-stream platforms. this may follow with x299 and it might not support xeon. this may not be a big deal for buying new, but may remove upgrade options from cheap used server xeon's.

3) only the 10-18 core cpu's offer 44 pcie lanes. 6 & 8 core cpu's will offer 28 lanes, while the 4 core models offer 16 lanes. many x299 motherboards appear to only offer x16/x8/x4 with the 28 lane cpu's, but there appear to be a few that offer x8/x8/x8. there are some motherboards that only offer x16/x8/x1 with the 28 lane cpu's.

4) x299 chipset will now offer pcie gen 3.0, where as x99 only offered gen 2.0. this allows for the m.2 ssd's to run off the chipset, rather than use up valuable or limited cpu pcie lanes.

5) optane memory - right now optane is only offered as a cache solution. this will be targeting cheap off-the-shelf computers that only come with a hdd. for any computer using a ssd(s) it will serve no purpose and shouldn't be an issue for builds here.

6) kaby lake X - this is perhaps the most confusing part of x299, a so called "high end desktop platform" offering 4c/4t and 4c/8t cpu's. these kaby lake X cpu's will also have the intel graphics disabled, still only offer dual channel memory support, and only 16 pcie lanes. intel claims these cpu's are for upgrade path options, but with motherboards costing so much to enter x299 it doesn't make sense. anyone dealing with a budget that tight should be using amd ryzen and not wasting money on an expensive motherboard with features they can't use. some people, myself included, think this is intel attempting to make another change to their chipset platform and restrict overclocking to the HEDT (x299). if that's true we might see unlocked cpu's only offered on x299 and removed from the next main stream release of coffee lake, or perhaps the next main stream platform after that if intel wants to do this more gradually.

7) motherboard raid has some big changes - intel has added support for m.2 motherboard raid, but appears they have some limitations. the news stories say motherboard raid will only support m.2 raid-0 for free, and other levels of m.2 raid will require a hardware key to unlock. worse yet, the news stories also report that motherboard raid will only work with intel ssd's. if this is true its a very very anti-consumer move by intel to lock down their platform and force users into purchasing intel m.2 ssd's and expensive hardware keys. for most builds here we won't need raid m.2's, and if someone does they might be fine using windows raid instead.

8) prices - some big price drops, but only at the 8 core cpu and up. while the 8 core cpu got a decent price drop, it also got the pcie lane count dropped from 40 with last gen cpu's, to 28 lanes. while these price drops will be welcome, and a direct response to amd's offerings, intel seems to be cutting corners with pcie lanes and thermal paste, and trying to make up for lost money by trying to force folks into buying intel ssd's and raid hardware keys. with intel building walled gardens and charging 2x the price of amd cpu's, some people are calling intel the new apple.

Trevor.Dennis

Community Expert

I was initially excited about the new processors and chipset, but the more I read, the more uncertain I have become. The high TDP is one concern. My current 3930K system sits on carpet under a desk with the wall behind it, and is running damn hot nowadays. In fact I just checked, and it is at 83-89°C at idle (EDIT: but with several apps including Photoshop running. It sits at 60°C at idle with just a browser window and Speccy running — I'll still be pulling it out for a clean up first opportunity), so time to pull it out and clean the fans and radiator. But I would need to improve things with an i9 processor like sitting it on wood and running ducting to improve air flow.

Cost is not a huge issue, but at the same time spending the dollars has to make sense. Having said that, and having got myself somewhat up to speed with Ryzen, I suspect I'll end up going with X299. I was planning to wait and see how things develop, but after checking Specky just now, it looks like I need to do some work right now.

Bill do any of the motherboards already announced take your fancy?

Bill GehrkeAuthor

Inspiring

Trevor

You have to remember I am an experimenter first and a video editor second so my likes are not always the most practical. My current motherboard is an ASUS x99-E WS to give me maximum flexibility like I can (and have) put 3 x16 GPU's in this motherboard or on the other the hand I have run 4 of the new super speed M.2 SSD's simultaneously. So my choices might not be a practical for the typical editor.

Bill

RoninEditsCorrect answer

Inspiring

Where are your X299 systems?

Sign up

To post, reply, or follow discussions, please sign in with your Adobe ID.

Sign in to Adobe Community

To post, reply, or follow discussions, please sign in with your Adobe ID.

Scanning file for viruses.

This file cannot be downloaded