Choppy H264 playback - hard drive speed or connection?

[KazuTa]

1.) I edit on a MacBook Early 2015 with a 2.7 GHz Intel i5. H264 files sometimes play back choppy.

In buying a new external hard drive, would any of these factors help with the choppy playback:

A.) Thunderbolt 2?

B.) 7200 rpm vs 5400 rpm?

Or is the issue primarily with my GPU? Would the best solution be an external GPU or a new computer?

2.) When I import HLS H264 video, it's definitely choppy. Do newer computers play back HLS smoothly? Or is the only solution to convert in Shutter Encoder or Handbrake?

[KazuTa]

Yeah, my basic question is: if I'm relying on hardware/software decoding of H.264, and have a new computer like the yet-to-be-released larger-screen iMac (maybe M2 chip), would it matter if the external hard drive I'm going to buy (5200 rpm) has a Thunderbolt 2 connection or a USB 3.1 Gen 1 connection? I'm thinking CPU, GPU, RAM, age of computer, and rpm are bigger factors than Thunderbolt 2 vs. USB 3.1. Gen 1?

Of course, for professional work, I wouldn't use a 5200 rpm hard drive; this is just for personal stuff.

[Warren Heaton]

@KazuTa 

There's no way of knowing for sure what ports Apple will include on whatever replaces the 27-inch iMac, but based the 24-inch M1 iMacs we can expect some variation of the following:

• Thunderbolt 3 (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 4 (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gb/s)

If you purchase a Thunderbolt 2 drive, you'll need to get the Apple Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter to connect it to a newer Mac (they all use Thunderbolt 4 or Thunderbolt 3).  

If you purchase a USB 3.1 Gen 1 drive, you'll need an adapter as well.  Some drives come with both types of cables, though.

[KazuTa]

Do you think the extra throughput of Thunderbolt 2 would make any
difference in H264 playback choppiness (assuming I'm doing real-time
hardware/software decoding on a new iMac)? I'm assuming, on a new iMac,
even if the external hard drive was USB 3.1 Gen 1, I probably won't be
seeing the choppy playback that I'm seeing on my MacBook Pro Late 2015 2.7
GHz i5?

Kazu Takeda
Assistant Editor

Mod note: Kindly do not share contact info on these forums.

[Andy 1968]

H.264 is not just a delivery codec. Sony and Panasonic make broadcast quality cameras costing $8,000.00 that use the h.264 video codec. Keep in mind the image quality of 4K 10 bit H.264 at 400 mbps is crisp and clean. If your camera records to BRAW edit the BRAW. If your camera records to H.264 you might as well edit the H.264 provided your computer is capable of editing H.264. Why waste time transcoding? You will not improve the image quality transcoding to Pro Res and you will create much bigger files. On some systems the Pro Res will be easier to playback but on other systems H.264 will be easier to playback because Nvenc and Quick Sync are amazing and Premiere Pro supports both. 

For people who edit short four or five minute long videos for social media Quick Sync and Nvenc make editing H.264 the preferred method.  On the other hand if you edit a two hour long made for TV movie transcoding to Pro Res might have an advantage. You might have to deliver to Pro Res. For my editing needs and many others editing H.264 works best. Below is a mediocre computer system editing 4K 8 bit H.264 with ease using Premiere Pro and Nvidia's Nvenc. Nvenc and Quick Sync support H.264 at 10 bit but I am not sure if Premiere Pro supports 10 bit H.264 at this point in time. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFDt-G-dMOU

[Warren Heaton]

The post that started this thread is based on a 2015 i5 iMac, right?  ProRes, without question.

Yes, H264 and H265 can be used as an acquisition CODEC.  Neither is an editing CODEC.

If you're fine with always seeing yellow or red or green in your Timeline, great.  Or if you're short social media media, great.

Otherwise:

https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/smart-rendering.html

[Andy 1968]

Warren, 

Your wrote the following below. 
"The post that started this thread is based on a 2015 i5 iMac, right?  ProRes, without question".

Other people will read this thread. That being said have you ever used Premiere Pro on a Windows computer form 2018 or newer using Nvnec or Quick Sync? Would you admit that on some computers it is easier to edit H.264/265 than the Apple Pro Res codec? To be fair on the PC side BRAW and R3D files are easier to edit than Apple Pro Res. Did you know that? I have a few videos that demonstrate this. 

You also wrote this.

Yes, H264 and H265 can be used as an acquisition CODEC.  Neither is an editing CODEC.

People used to say HDV is not an editing codec but only because the MPEG2 video files were hard to playback on the computers when HDV first hit the market. When the Core 2 Quad CPUs hit the market people edited the native HDV because the Core 2 Quad CPUs could edit HDV with ease. As of 2022 millions of people edit H.264 everyday and there is no reason for them to transcode to Pro Res. 

No one is suggesting using Pro Res for long projects in order to make use of smart rendering is a bad idea. At the same time editing Pro Res can be more taxing on some computers than editing H.264. Are you aware of that? 

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi Baffy,

I wanted to get my opinion in here if that's OK. You and Warren both have great points.

On the one hand, most common users and editors new on the scene do not know much about codecs, don't want to know, or even care what they are. All they know is when they pop a clip into the timeline, any clip, from anywhere - it should merely play back and be able to edit and scrub "like butter."

On the other hand, an experienced editor thinks differently. If he or she is handed poorly functioning footage (even if it was shot on a Canon DSLR or a high end Sony Camera), given their hardware setup, they make changes to that media in the project setup process. The step is what I call optimizing media. I transcode these satanic clips before ever editing with them.

My need to edit clips "like butter" is super strong because I'm fervent keyboard driven editor; a JKL man to the bone. I need that playhead to jump off a clip as soon as I press L with a near zero delay. When I press JK I want the clip to immediately start slow scrubbing in reverse with no delay. Delays in playing back with JKL are frequent with native H.264 and I simply can't edit that way.

By observation, I've found many younger editors have no idea how to manipulate clips with JKL and are more driven by dragging the playhead around with their native Long GOP footage. In fact, I'd say that 99% of folks that are self-taught edit in this fashion. Not saying it's wrong, it's just not how I was taught how to edit - on the Avid - in the 90s. I like the way I edit and I don't want to have to adapt to a different way of editing, (slamming the playhead around - I don't want to touch my mouse, it slows me down) just because the footage is too compressed.

So, thanks for listening. You both have good points. I don't mind to edit native H.264 when I'm in a hurry or don't want to hassle much with the "transcoding boogie." Thank goodness I have a computer that has Intel QuickSync and a GPU which can offer hardware accelerated encoding and decoding my H.264 for playback. Nice.

A serious project is different. I carefully transcode any questionable source footage at the setup stage for the project. This thread is going off topic, so I may branch this to the lounge for further discussion.

Thanks,
Kevin 

[Andy 1968]

Kevin,

Pro Res on the PC side will make my CPU fan max out and make the CPU run hot. Pro Res also requires a lot faster hard drive system then H.264. Your are also taxing the CPU when transcoding H.264 to Pro Res. Would it be worth if for most people? Even prior to Nvenc and Quick Sync support I could edit H.264 on the PC side easier than Pro Res. In fact on the PC side I can edit BRAW and R3D files easier than Pro Res. Pro Res can be helpful for long project because of the support for smart rendering and no one would deny that but keep in mind Quick Sync and Nvenc are getting better and better. If the competition has better support for Quick Sync and Nvenc than Premiere Pro some people will opt to chose a different NLE. At the end of the day that is what it all boils down to. 

[Warren Heaton]

@Kevin-Monahan 

I like the phrase "satanic clips".  It reminds of the early days of digital video when it was often referred to as "practicing the dark art of digital video voodoo".

- Warren

[Warren Heaton]

Regarding question 2, since you're on a Mac right-click the clip(s) in the Finder and choose Encode Selected Video(s).  In the options dialog box, choose ProRes.

[Baffy19]

I use Win. Most of the problems are on the iMac. At least, that's what I said, because I follow user posts.

[Warren Heaton]

It's i5, i7, and i9 one way or the other.  Wouldn't it be something if our Windows workstations were magically trouble free?

If you're looking for a great machine to just take out of the box and turn on and run any of the Adobe Creative Cloud applications, it's hard to beat an iMac.

[Baffy19]

I will disappoint you. Now Adobe software works better and trouble-free on the WIn system. Are you reading the forum here or are you missing something? study the problems and requests of users more carefully. Kevin will confirm this. There, Apple has a mess in the security settings and all the problems with dynamic communication between Pr and AE and ME applications arise immensely therefore. There is a post where one kind person shared effective advice to overcome this ailment and solve a global issue. Kevin checked and confirmed. Therefore, I am happy that I am using Win 11.

[Baffy19]

Adobe needs to cooperate more closely with Apple, Intel, Nvidia, AMD corporations, and then many errors will be solved and everything will be fine for users. Now most of the errors occur precisely at the software level and not otherwise. This is an important point in solving many issues that you are struggling with.

[Andy 1968]

Baffy19,

On the PC side Adobe can make decent use of the computer's hardware. That is not to say it is perfect. Having said that the video below might be worth watching. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L-erwmRxAU

[Baffy19]

Read the queries and what users encounter on the forum. I'm not taking it out of my head. Everything is written in black and white on the forum.

[Baffy19]

What is it for? I don't understand. It may be useful for beginners.

[Andy 1968]

? 

[Ann Bens]

OK guys end of the road.

Conversation locked.