Inspiring

Question

Planning / building a new system. Part 1

Forum|Forum|13 years ago
March 27, 2012
12 replies
25123 views

At some point in time, we all face that difficult decision. We know that our system is at the end of its lifecycle and needs to be replaced in the near future. But does it require a complete new system, or is it worthwhile to upgrade parts of the system, or is it better to wait for the new .... that was just announced?

We all have these thoughts from time to time, we have budget restraints, we have to 'sell' our ideas to the Financial Director, we have to get final approval and then, as a final step, we must implement them.

This gives you the link to a multi-part sequel about planning and building a complete new system. It is not a simple copy this build and paste it for your system builder, because it is based on my own ideas, budget limits, needs, and idiosyncrasies. It is full of uncertainties, decisions to be made, further investigations to be done, but the intention is to take you along on this journey to a new system, showing you the choices I had, the decisions I made and why.

See: Planning and Building a new system

I appreciate your feedback and help in this endeavour, which may not be finished before september 2012. I intend it to be a 6-7 part sequel with pictures of the build progress.

This topic has been closed for replies.

A

Anonymous

Hi, I was wondering if you had thought about using a Rack case system, you could fit a 10 or 12 U Rack under your desk. You can buy full hot swappable 4U 24 bay Rack mount cases for example http://www.xcase.co.uk/X-Case-RM-424-Pro-p/case-424-pro.htm. Which you can use as a SAN for your main system using external RAID cards.

I know you have made you decision now but if you had concidered it, it would be interesting to hear why you decided not to go that way.

Harm_MillaardAuthor

Inspiring

The simple problem with a 19" rack is its width. Height would not the problem under my desk, but the width. It would have as a consequence that I will always hit my knees to the rack.

Z

Zanzaben

Participant

So I have been looking over your build and I have been wondering why you are useing raid 3 over raid 5. Can anyone tell me what eactly why raid 3 is better for video editing than raid 5.

Harm_MillaardAuthor

Inspiring

The major difference is dedicated parity (raid3) versus distributed parity (raid5). It has noticeable impact on sustained transfer rates and rebuild times. Video material is usually about long sequential reads/writes and that is where dedicated parity comes in handy. For large IOP environments, webshops, news sites and the like, sequential reads/writes are not terribly important and then raid5 is the more attractive option. Also see: Adobe Forums: Raid Performance and Rebuild Issues

D

David OS

Participant

Harm

I've been doing a lot of reading of these forums and your Planing / building article... keeping up to date with your monster build. Infact, I'm building my own mini monster atm and have been able to draw some guidance on how I should proceed. I have a quick question if you don't mind addressing... With all your power requirements for this build, what are your toughts on an adequate UPS. I see eps calculator has recommended 2200VA rated one. Thanks...

cpachris_1969

Participating Frequently

Will you give you my two cents also here. Whatever you decide are the appropriate power requirements, ...split it between two PSU's. In the current build I'm working on, I have two Corsair AX850's. If you are after a quiet build, this helps greatly. With the Corsair's, the fan doesn't even start spinning until you put an above average load on the PSU. By dividing the load between two units, I'm anticipating have absolutely zero PSU noise, because there will be no fans spinning most of the time. Quiet is one my requirements.

J

JEShort01

Inspiring

IMHO regarding water cooling after living with a fast water-cooled system for over a year...

Pros:

- for my build, I'm feel I'm getting similar cooling performance to a top-notch air cooler, but at a lower sound level. Using a single 480mm radiator and two slow, quiet 120mm Noctura's, my setup is quiet, cools well, and has been reliable. I suspect that "force fed" water flow around the cpu / gpu is more effective than the convective liquid flow that air-coolers count on (aka heat pipes).

- water block cooled GTX video cards during a render are virtually silent compared with any fan cooled design I've ever been around.

- a Swiftech centrifugal pump "suspended" by water tubing is absolutely SILENT; I happened to learn this while prototyping my final build (my pump is not bolted or taped to anything in my system - and no, that was not my original plan!)

- No issues whatsoever regarding installing and getting air-flow around your RAM (water blocks are tiny compared with air-coolers)

Cons:

- More cost; I'd say $100 more for a good system CPU cooler (aka Swiftech 655, cpu water block) and $125 additional extra for a GTX with factory installed water block

- Extremely time consuming to plan and build; yes, I repeat, EXTREMELY time consuming!!! Also, once you have something like a water-block cooled GTX mounted you really will not want to invest the time required to test any other video cards.

- Weight; nobody ever seems to mention this, but water-cooling adds weight vs. an air-cooled setup, and powerful video editing PCs are pretty heavy to begin with.

- More trouble / risk to relocate; Once all the bubbles have been purged from the system its best just to leave most water cooled PC designs sitting upright.

Other comments:

- Once built, my water cooled build has proven to be extremely maintenance and trouble free. And, when I upgraded a quad-core to a six-core CPU I'd even say that is was much easier do than when I've done similar CPU changes on a build that utilized a large, efficient CPU air-cooler

- Technically (ignoring the "time" factor for planning and implementing your build) my first choice for fast and quiet is water-cooled, 2nd choice is air-cooled, and for me dedicated sealed system "liquid" coolers (Corsair H70, etc.) would be a distant 3rd choice. Why? Water and air are the most effective coolers, and water is the quietest to effectively cool my 6-core 4.5 GHz system. Finally, dedicated liquid coolers just don't seem to rate the reliability that I desire for 24/7 use, including when I'm not home.

cpachris,

Seems like you and I value strong performance and extreme quiet...

- Regarding your idea to have 2 AX850's - FYI, I'm not aware of anyone doing this unless you plan on doing something like powering all of your drive with one p/s and the rest of the PC with the other. A few years ago I did just that for a poor-boys home server build where the PC consisted of two cases. The drive case used one power supply, which had a physical on/off switch on the power supply itself, and the "paper clip" pin short trick on one p/s mounted in one case to power 8 drives. The main case used a power supply in the normal fashion connected to the motherboard, case power switch, etc. Eight 1 meter long SATA cables ran from the controller in the main case to the "drive" case. To power things on, I fired up the drive case first, and simply started the server just like a normal PC hard boot. BTW I had this "dual-box" "dual p/s" server for a 3 years and now a friend has been running it for 2 additional years, so I can say is has been totally trouble free.

- I'm very happy however using a single AX1250 for my main home PC / editing box now for the same reasons that you mention - it pretty much runs silently all of the time because it is never having to work close to its maximum capacity.

Regards,

Jim

D

DeePeeBee

Participating Frequently

RjL - that's good to know - just because it will "work" doesn't mean it'soptimal! What would you say about the option of getting 4x8 instead of 8x4 and the possibilities of adding another set of 4 in the future?

R

RjL190365

Legend

Dorothy,

You will likely pay around a 30 percent premium for going 4x8 instead of 8x4. However, this will give you room to expand whereas going with 8x4 would require you to completely replace some or all of those sticks just to expand RAM.

D

DeePeeBee

Participating Frequently

icy100, I am in the process of starting up my build very similar to yours. But I used the workstation version of the Asus P9X79. It is a K***A** Board, but I did have to RMA the first one I received and it IS LARGER THAN A STANDARD ATX board - CEB form factor 12x10.5. I couldn't fit it into a coolermaster Scout for example, so I ordered a Silverstone F02. You may have to stick with the Pro version if you want to use the Antec 1200. I wanted the WS for the twin LAN ports and the firewire which I need. It also has a port for a wireless adapter stick ($5.00 refurbished) which is a really easy install.

You need to think about your CPU cooler. I used the Noctua NH D14-SE2011 and it just barely clears my GSkill ripjaws memory sticks - it seems to be more than adequate cooling. I had read that folks had to Dremel off the heat spreaders on some Vengance sticks. I believe the Asus website and the Notua website will give you the combined requirements for a case and for memory that will physically fit. Also the Noctua cooler is very high so you need to check the clearance in your case. If it won't fit, you may have to go with liquid cooling - with its attendant radiator/fan fitting issues.

I did get a 1000 w psu, but you are likely fine with the 850.

If I had 24 gb of existing COMPATIBLE memory, I would start with that rather than buy an 8x4 set, the WS mobo has memory configurations for 1, 2, 4, 6, and 8 sticks. Then if 24 GB isn't enough and you need to go to 32 you could then buy a 4x8 set and then eventually add another 4x8 to get to 64 (although I have read that sometimes adding an unmatched set just doesn't work, so that's somewhat of a gamble).

Good luck, if you need anything measured, just let me know, it's all together on my dining room table so easy to do now. My case comes tomorrow, so I'll start packing it in next week.

Dorothy

I

icy100

Participating Frequently

Dorothy, many thanks for your input. I've now ordered all the components but I've changed out the Corsair memory for the G.Skill Ripsaws (8*4gb). Everything should be with me by next week so the build starts then. If I come across any problems I'll give you a shout for guidance.

Harm_MillaardAuthor

Inspiring

Dorothy, thanks for the 'heads up' advice on the RAID. I decided on the Noctua cooler as you suggested as it seems to be a very good selection for the 3930k cpu. I'll let you know how I get on with the build once everything arrives and I get the change to build and test it.

Just to let you know that the build has really started. First pictures of the case and drive cages have appeared, as well as the tab up to now. Have a look at the original page http://ppbm6.com/Planning.html and go to the panel 'Case' for more details. So, effectively we have now moved into part 2.

I

icy100

Participating Frequently

I've looked at Harm's thoughts on the various components and have decided (probably) to upgrade within the next couple of weeks. My current system is

Windows 7 Professional

Antec 1200 case

Asus P6 X58 mb

Intel i7 930 2.8

GTX 480

24gb memory

Corsair 850w silver psu

Highpoint Rocket Raid 4322 Raid controller

4 x 1tb Samsung F3 internal Raid 0

4 x 1TB Samsung F3 external Raid 0

1 x 1TB Samsung F3 os disc

Matrox MXO2 le

I intend to swap out the mb, cpu, gpu and memory and put in the following

Asus P9 X79 Pro mb

GTX 680 gpu

Intel i7 3930k cpu

Corsair vengence green 8 x 4gb (1.35v) memory

My intention is to use CS6 with Premiere Pro and AE nad hope that this confirguration will work well

Any suggestions regarding the compatability or any other possible issues with this potential setup would be welcome

I

icy100

Participating Frequently

Hi Harm

Great info. I'm in a similar position of looking to upgrade to get the best out of CS6 (Premiere, AE etc) and was very interested in reading your thoughts about your future upgrade plans as I'm looking at similar specs. I am considering the Asus P9X79 and wondered what the difference would be between the Pro version and the WS you're proposing. I'm also finding great difficulty in sourcing the Samsung 1.35v 4gb memory sticks in the UK so I'm considering others and wondered if you could recommend memory (8 x 4gb) that would also work well with the X79 and a 3930k cpu.

P

poppabear69

Participating Frequently

Hi Harm,

I am in a similar boat - my current i7-920 is good enough, but I would like to upgrade.

I saw the Adobe TV episode about the Premiere CS6 and Mercury Playback Engine.

http://tv.adobe.com/watch/cs6-creative-cloud-feature-tour-for-video/get-blazing-performance-and-rock-solid-stability-with-the-enhanced-mercury-playback-engine/

It says that Premiere CS6 was designed to take advantage of the new Xeon E5-1600 and E5-2600 CPU's.

There doesn't seem to be a price premium for the new Xeon's. The Xeon E5-1650 has the same specs as the i7-3930K and is a comparable price.

I am looking forward to seeing some PPBM6 results from the new Xeon's.

D

DeePeeBee

Participating Frequently

Harm, I now realize there are other threads more relevant to my question, in fact, I think I have found the answers to most of my questions. When I finish my build I will try to run the PPBM5 benchmarks (or maybe the PPBM 6 runs if they are ready then). Thanks, sorry to have polluted your thread and good luck with your build,

Dorothy

Harm_MillaardAuthor

Inspiring

Dorothy,

Sorry for not having answered before, Your post did not not give me sufficient handles to come up with a clear and concise answer as a reply. It was a bit too broad and raised too many issues/questions to answer in some simple phrases. Nevertheless, your doubts, questions and uncertainties about which way to turn are about the most frequent things one encounters when building a new system. That was the exact reason why I started this series, but my timetable may not match yours. If you have specific questions, please create your own topic and I will try to respond. But if I'm not there, there are many others with valuable input who can help you.

D

DeePeeBee

Participating Frequently

Harm, I am starting on a build very similar to yours - but with a lot less beef. I already have the 3930 CPU and the Asus P9X79 WS motherboard and my Noctua NH-D14 cooler, 600 GB Sata III Velociraptor HD and EVGA GTX 570 (Model 1579 with 2GB of RAM) should arrive this week.

I've started thinking thru the setup and in reading the MB manual, I find myself with so many choices that I don't know what to do. First, I think I need to settle on the the disk/RAID setup so I can do that once - when I set up the system instead of coming back to "fix it".

I already have a 120GB SanDisk SATA III SSD (Extreme) and I also have a pair of 80GB old (Sata II) SSD's.

I had planned to use the 120 GB SSD for my boot disk, and the velociraptor to run videos/photoshop projects. Everything that is finished goes to my HTPC so I don't need a lot of storage, but I did plan to use an internal 1TB Green WD HD for backup - In addition to my external HP MediaSmart Server backups.

Now that I read about the WS motherboard's ability to use an SSD as cache for a larger HDD, I am wondering if I should use a SATA III SSD/Velociraptor HDD setup for my project fines and a small SATA II SSD for my OS. And would I want the largest stripe size possible for both RAIDs or a smaller size for the OS?? If I need a hardware RAID controller to do any of this, I probably would stay with the software alternatives.

To add to the confusion, I can still expand my HD options - I could get a 300GB velociraptor to go with the SATAIII SSD drive for the OS, and another 600 GBvelociraptor to pair up in RAID 0 for the projects.

My PSU is a Corsair modular HX620W which is probably light, but I will only use it on my "test bench" to get some power consumption data before I decide how big to go. I have 4 sticks of G Skill Ripjaws DDR3 1600, 4 GB each, which I will eventually either supplement with another 16GB or maybe replace totally with 64GB. And there is also an LG blu-ray burner and a USB wireless N adapter to pop into the USB port on the MB.

Fast booting is nice, but not worth spending money on - rendering is what eats up hours and what I want to beat down. This is not a professional work station, just for my photography/video hobby, but I still never want to have another 16 hour render time.

There will be no software on this machine other than what is necessary for my hobby - I'll use Windows 7 Home Premium 64GB and Adobe Lightroom 4. I already have Production Premium CS5 and plan to download the trial for 5.5 - or 6.0 if it is still available as a trial. The ASus MB comes with Norton but I usually use AVG Anti-virus - I don't plan to be surfing the Web, only to dowload updates for drivers, etc. I would even use my other machine for tutorials, etc. to keep this one as clean as possible.

I've never overclocked before, but this MB seems to make that process pretty straightforward. I'm sure I will have a hundred other issues as I progress, e.g. should I use the Drive Xpert Mode (is Super Speed just RAID 0 for dummies??and does it only work on the same SATA ports that will provide SSD caching??), should I use TurboV EVO or set up an underclocking profile and an overclocking profile for myself? Would I want to overclock the GPU?? Should I use MEMOK?? Would you recommend installing all of the Asus utilities or is that just bloatware?

And then there will be tuning Windows and setting all those Adobe preferences, how to take advantage of the two LAN ports, etc., etc., but I do have some sources to start with for those challenges. It would be great to use your thread or your build site to package some of the best resources.

The case for all this gear is still undecided, probably a Silverstone Fortress FT-02. I've never had a viewing "door" before, but with all of the ASUS diagnostic lights, maybe that would be a good idea.

I'm ok to use anything that makes life simpler, but not at the expense of bogging down the system. I'd appreciate comments and advice from you and anyone else interested, especially if there are issues that I obviously have not thought of. I plan to try to run the PPBM5 (or 6) benchmarks and I'm game to try out various configurations or tests to see what works best.

This is the first time I've ever sought help with a build (except for my son, but family is different), so I hope I haven't asked for too much. If I have, it's really the HDD system that I need to come to grips with before I start putting things together.

Thanks in advance,

Dorothy

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