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Ed.Macke
Inspiring
April 24, 2012
Answered

Video Card Advice for CS6 (Win)

  • April 24, 2012
  • 10 replies
  • 30204 views

I'm currently using Premiere Elements, but am looking to buy the CS6 Suite with Premiere Pro. While I do mostly SD editing, my son wants to get into AVCHD editing and especially using AfterEffects.

Given that I currently have a homebuilt PC (specs at end of post) with only integrated Intel HD2000 graphics, I guess


  • Question #1 is will I really need a dedicated video card, or is the HD2000 enough for what I want to do? Of course faster = better, but how much faster will it be for my money, i.e. bang for the buck.

  • And Question #2 would be... if so, which card? I really don't want to spend more than I need, but I also don't want to go cheap and end up with a solution that's not much better than what I have.


I'm especially confused with Mercury Playback, AfterEffects, SpeedGrade, and what is truly needed. Looking at this page, they really push the Quadro GPU and Quadro SDI Output cards. But on the "officially supported" page, it lists GeForce GTX, Quadro FX, and Quadro cards.

What the heck? Can somebody help me wade through this alphabet soup of cards, and what supports what?

Let's say I went with the GTX 570... is 1GB enough ($300 for the EVGA version) or do I need 2GB ($340)? Would the 570 be good enough?

Or do I need to go to the GTX 580? At $430 for the 1.5GB and $480 for the 3GB, it's signficantly more money than the GTX570 so it better be significantly better than the GTX570.

Or there's the the Quadro 2000 or 2000D for about $400. It seems to fall between the 570 and 580 price-wise, but it's a different line. Also, cards only seems to be made by PNY... what's up with that?

I can look at tech specs and marketing hype until I'm blue in the face, but it's not helping me decide what I really need - and how cheap I can go

TIA!!

System Specs

---------------------------------------------------------------

Win7 Home Premium 64-bit

Intel i7-2600 (not overclocked, stock cooler)

Intel DZ68BC motherboard

16GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3 1333

SeaSonic 620W Power Supply

WD Caviar Blue SATA III 500 GB (programs)

WD Caviar Blue SATA III 500 GB (data files)

WD Caviar Black SATA III 1TB (video files)

Antec 1200 case w/ 6 fans

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer excited_Genie16B8

    Of the models you listed, I'd go for the 2GB 570 myself.  A 570 will give you great performance, and the extra 1GB of memory for $40 seems worth it.

    10 replies

    Bill Gehrke
    Inspiring
    April 28, 2012

    I hate to burst anyone's bubble but later today I will have complete data on how much better the GTX 680 is for Premiere users.  I have a new personal benchmark that uses AVCHD 1920 x 1080 source clip and I have applied several necessary video effects and then exported it to MPEG2-DVD.  So far I have tried three different GPU's (GTX-680, GTX560 Ti 448, and GTX 285) and as soon as I can get around to running a GTX 580 and formatting the data for presentation I will come back with the information, but believe me the GTX 680 is a Premiere Pro users dream!  Of course my baseline will be using the CPU only as would happen if you have an ATI/AMD card.

    lasvideo
    Inspiring
    April 28, 2012

    Bill. since many PrP users are also AE users, it would be interesting to see how the various cards perform there as well. Many folks that got sneak peek access to AE CS6 report the Quadro 4000 dramatically speed up the new ray tracing mode that allows text extrusion/reflections/transparency/etc.

    Bill Gehrke
    Inspiring
    April 28, 2012

    Send me a Quadro 4000!

    Participating Frequently
    April 27, 2012

    For OpenCL performance try these links:

    http://techreport.com/articles.x/22653/7

    http://www.geeks3d.com/20120427/clbenchmark-new-opencl-benchmark-for-windows-tested-hd-7970-vs-gtx-680/

    For full performance considerations under CS6 for a range of applications I’d wait until it is released to see how the various nVidia cards perform. It seems likely that the GTX 570/580 will offer the best across the board performance (assuming OpenCL is an issue) until the top end Kepler GPU is released.

    Participating Frequently
    April 26, 2012

    I had to also pay additional to put in 750w when the GTX 560Ti 2g was installed and I am am way over budget with this system so that my 12 year old can advance his video editing skills. The computer tech guy said a hack had the potential to crash my system so I was afraid. Why can't Adobe update their list of approved cards? I don't get it?! It is a CUDA card and seems to meet the specifications otherwise. Now my son wants to upgrade to CS6. Is a hack my only option?

    Legend
    April 26, 2012

    For now, that's your only option. At least on initial release, the Adobe list of supported cards in CS6 for Windows remains completely unchanged from CS5.5.

    And it beats me that Adobe has certified the Quadro 2000 - a GPU that's based on a much less powerful GPU than the GTX 560 Ti (in this case, the Quadro 2000 is based on an underclocked GTS 450) - in addition to certifying the GTX 570 and GTX 580. (And as I noted, the GTX 680 is not included because it is still too new to have been tested sufficiently by Adobe engineers.)

    Participating Frequently
    April 28, 2012

    I found a bat file to hack for the GTX 560 Ti for PE Do I need to do something to AE as well? I cannot find anything under Search Cuda Hack. Thanks!

    Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 12:57:50 -0600

    From: forums@adobe.com

    To: karenleemoore@live.com

    Subject: Video Card Advice for CS6 (Win)

    Re: Video Card Advice for CS6 (Win)

    created by RjL190365 in Hardware Forum - View the full discussion

    For now, that's your only option. At least on initial release, the Adobe list of supported cards in CS6 for Windows remains completely unchanged from CS5.5.

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    Participating Frequently
    April 26, 2012

    I spent about $300 upgrading our computer's graphic card for my 12 year old son who has CS5.5 installed and uses it for Video Production. I put in  GeForce GTX 560Ti 2g card on my I7 PC with 16gb RAM and I don't see it on the list of accepted cards?!?! Will he be able to run CS6? What do I need to do? This is very confusing. Why can't Adobe issue an update for their accepted cards? My son is having the same issue with 3Ds max. (((Please help)))

    Legend
    April 26, 2012

    Search the forums for "CUDA" and "hack". The GTX 560 Ti is not on the official list of supported GPUs in Premiere Pro CS5.5; however, you can make MPE GPU acceleration work with that GPU with the CUDA hack.

    John T Smith
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    April 24, 2012

    >620W Power

    What I built is linked at http://forums.adobe.com/thread/652694

    The nVidia 285 I use (no longer sold) has TWO power connections... and, with everything else in my computer, I think would quickly kill a power supply that small

    I do not believe a 620w PS is enough for you to go to an nVidia card

    Ed.Macke
    Ed.MackeAuthor
    Inspiring
    April 24, 2012

    I do not believe a 620w PS is enough for you to go to an nVidia card

    I've heard that from others, too.

    But then again I've also read plenty of accounts where people had systems actually running - and running just dandy - with a 570 card and a good quality 550W PSU (here's one). And this Tom's Hardware article says a max-stressed 570 uses 330W, leaving 300W for everything else.

    Of course, even with all of that, there's a lot of 12V rail amperage talk, overhead, effeciency, and just plain quality of the PSU that makes this whole thing sound one step above witchcraft and divining rods.

    If I have to spend $100+ to replace my 620W PSU with a slightly larger one, I will. On the other hand, I certainly don't want to do that without some reason to semblance that there's actually a reason to. I don't want to fix what ain't broke, you know?

    Hence my pondering how to go beyond estimating or guessing and actually proving a PSU is sufficient. Or not. I guess your system suddenly turning off would be a good indicator? But beyond that....??


    Harm_Millaard
    Inspiring
    April 24, 2012

    What do you prefer, when going on a trip with 4 adults and 500 lbs of luggage in hilly terrain:

    1. A FIAT Cinquecento, or

    2. A BMW 530i

    and both doing around 80 Mph? The FIAT has to run at 100% power, the Beamer has a leisurely time. I can guarantee the FIAT is running flat out and disaster is ready to strike, overheating the engine, using more oil and not half as efficient in fuel consumption as the Beamer. The FIAT will also make a lot more noise.

    Same with a PSU. A PSU of 1700 W does not consume more energy than a 500 W PSU, it will run quieter, more reliable and cost more, just like the two cars mentioned above. There are numerous lousy power calculators around, think Asus, Newegg etc. but the only one recommended, also by Tom's Hardware worth looking at, is eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Pro v2.5

    You also have to take into consideration that a marginal PSU will cause huge headaches, first in finding that the PSU is at fault when you have all these mysterious hangs, then when you have to replace it with all those hard to reach cables connections.

    IMO it is absolutely penny-wise, pound-foolish to skimp on a PSU.

    Harm_Millaard
    Inspiring
    April 24, 2012

    There are a couple of things about your system:

    1. A 620 W PSU.

    2. 3 Caviar Blue disks.

    3. The integrated graphics card.

    If you want a nVidia CUDA capable card for hardware MPE, consider anything from the GTX 560 Ti and upward. If your son uses multicam with his AVCHD material, consider the largest amount of VRAM available. If your video card runs out of VRAM space it will (very ungracefully) drop down to software mode MPE. But also consider that if you go beyond the 560 Ti, the PSU may not be enough, you may need a bigger PSU in the range of 750 W. Check the link to eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Pro v2.5 that Srukweza showed you in the link above. Finally, the Caviar Blue disks are not the best models to use. They are slower than the Caviar Blacks, but can do OK for starting out, as long as you keep in mind that eventually you want full speed 7200 disks like the Caviar Blacks and then you can use your Blues for back-up.

    Ed.Macke
    Ed.MackeAuthor
    Inspiring
    April 24, 2012

    You will be able to edit AVCHD wihout a "CUDA" card, simply slower http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2011/02/cuda-mercury-playba ck-engine-and-adobe-premiere-pro.html

    That was *very* helpful - exactly what I was looking for in what (and what not) a CUDA card will do for me. One very interesting (at least to me) blurb was this: After Effects doesn’t use CUDA.

    A 570 will give you great performance, and the extra 1GB of memory for $40 seems worth it.

    So it seems like I might be able to get away with the integrated graphics, but if I'm doing the kind of things that CUDA will speed up, the GTX 570 2GB card would be a good choice?

    There are a couple of things about your system:

    1. A 620 W PSU.

    2. 3 Caviar Blue disks.

    Re: 620W PSU. I debated going bigger, but the budget/price factors limited me to the 620W. But here's the thing: I tried the eXtreme PS Calculator Pro version, and several other estimators, just for giggles and I got answers anywhere between 200W to 950W - all claiming to be right. That makes me think there's way too much subjectivity in "estimating". That got me to thinking - how can you prove how much power your rig is actually using? If my rig is humming along, how do I know if it's using 200W or 600W? I wrapped an amp meter around the power cord and total AC power used from the wall was < 100W. But I'm not sure if a PSU rating of 620W means 620W AC pulled from the wall, or 620W DC supplied to the box. Just curious as to how I'd know if the 620W was sufficient or a 750W was called for.

    I actually have (2) Blues for programs and Word documents and whatnot and (1) Black for video source, scratch files, and rendered files. I'm sure there's a bottleneck on that Black drive and plus it's almost full, so my next buy will be another Black drive to separate the video stuff. Waiting for prices to drop back down and for my wife to not be looking

    Edit: Corrected link to Adobe blog

    Participating Frequently
    April 25, 2012

    Power supplies are rated for DC output whereas most reviews measure the AC input. There used to be a big difference between the two but with the advent of Gold and Platinum rated PSUs the difference can be 10% or less.

    Since you have a SeaSonic 620W PSU who are one of the top manufactures (retail and ODM) I suggest that 620W is more than adequate to run a GTX 570.

    To be certain I suggest checking what the 12V rail is for your PSU.

    You would be unlikely to pull more than 400W DC at peak and typically under 350W DC at load so a high quality 620W such as you have gives a lot of headroom.

    There are a lot of people that are seemingly ‘scared’ of power supplies and think you need a 100% headroom to be safe. A quality PSU such as you have is designed to run at its rated output safely. If you had a cheapo unit that would be different. You have a very large margin anyway so even the scared crowd would need to be particularly paranoid to be scared here. 350W load versus 620W rating equals 56% of the maximum rating for the PSU.

    To make a car analogy:

    If you buy a $30k car (analogous to a 620W PSU) and drive it to 56% of the 7,000 rpm red line (~3,900 rpm) is it any less reliable than a $60k car (analogous to a 1.2kW PSU) driven only to say 28% (half the rating) of the same red line (~1,950 rpm)?

    If both cars are reliable brands then it’s really not an issue surely.

    excited_Genie16B8Correct answer
    Legend
    April 24, 2012

    Of the models you listed, I'd go for the 2GB 570 myself.  A 570 will give you great performance, and the extra 1GB of memory for $40 seems worth it.

    John T Smith
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    April 24, 2012

    You will be able to edit AVCHD wihout a "CUDA" card, simply slower

    http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2011/02/cuda-mercury-playback-engine-and-adobe-premiere-pro.html

    For what you will do, do NOT buy Quadro! As Harm would say... over priced and under specced

    Go to the CS5 Benchmark http://ppbm5.com/ and read the results

    Legend
    April 25, 2012

    John T Smith wrote:

    For what you will do, do NOT buy Quadro! As Harm would say... over priced and under specced

    Actually, this may change with CS6: It may make excellent use of certain capabilities of the Quadro that are seriously lacking in the GeForce. But we will not know for sure until the first few batches of results appear on the PPBM6 results list. If what I stated proves true, then the performance ranking may very well go strictly by price, where a Quadro 2000 performs roughly equal to a current-gen GeForce of equal price.

    Todd_Kopriva
    Inspiring
    April 25, 2012

    The SpeedGrade guys are rather adamant about the Quadro being a better choice for their software. I'll dig into the details about why.

    Participating Frequently
    April 24, 2012

    you need a nvidia graphics card for best realtime performance for effects, dissolves, color correction etc. This don't have to be an expensive quadro model it can be a GeForce, too. It#s important you choose a model which is listed as compatible on adobe's specs.

    You have a fast CPU, maybe you don't need the GPU power in your projects. You can use CS5.5/6 in Software Mercury Engine mode, which processes very fast, too. Try it with the upcoming demo-version and then decide to buy a graphics card or not.

    Participating Frequently
    April 24, 2012

    I think this thread might be helpful:

    http://forums.adobe.com/thread/947698