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How to frameserve from Premiere CS5?

New Here ,
Sep 23, 2010 Sep 23, 2010

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Dears,

since Debugmode Frameserver is not working in Premiere CS5, also Avisynth is not working with CS5 version nor ProCoder and CCE doesn't have export plugin for Premiere CS5, my question is do we have option to frameserve Premiere timeline to some external coder or only encoding workflow (for DVD - MPEG2) is using Adobe Media Encoder?

Please, share your experience with encoding and frameserving.

Thanks.

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Explorer ,
Nov 07, 2010 Nov 07, 2010

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I can give to you contacts of programmer,.. maybe you can negotiate with him...

In the end, I think there is not much difference who it was translated by him the money ...

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LEGEND ,
Dec 05, 2010 Dec 05, 2010

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To anyone even mildly interested in having a frameserver with CS5:

I'm happy to report that this is really really real I've been briefly testing a debug version of the frameserver (earlier than the last videos posted here, so without a few of the new enhancements), and it works! We've uncovered a few bugs--for example, interlaced video is being automatically deinterlaced when frameserved, so that's obviously a crippling bug--but the communication lines are open and the hired programmer is working on a fix. Additionally, we'll see some new features like integration with the AME interface (e.g. all parameters are set in AME, not the FS dialog) and the ability to queue multiple items for frameserving via the AME queue, and have an auto-timeout built into the frameserver.

This is proving to be a truly international effort, and we're getting close to being able to have a release version--at present, we're about 75% of the way there on the needed funds to pay the programmer (~$360 of $500). If you'd like to help move this effort forward, and can spare even a few bucks toward it, please use the link in one of the above posts to contribute. I'll probably put a few more bucks into it, but we could use some help!

(For those interested, I've successfully encoded a file using Sorenson Squeeze, TMPGEnc Xpress, and Handbrake using the frameserver.)

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LEGEND ,
Dec 05, 2010 Dec 05, 2010

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Thanks, Colin.

Can you briefly summarize how the multiple items queued in the AME feature should work?  I'm not getting my head around the mechanics of it, or how it would be used in the real world.

-Jeff

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LEGEND ,
Dec 05, 2010 Dec 05, 2010

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Jeff,

Certainly; do note that this is based on loose Google-assisted conversations, and not anything experiential yet, but this is how I understand it to work...

There are several changes to the frameserver that have or will enable this ability. For one, the frameserver settings are now part of the Export Settings panel, just as they would be with any other codec. For example, on the Video tab, you have the RGB24, RGB32, and YUY2 options we're accustomed to, as well as the Network Frameserving option; I believe there are a couple other small options, but the test version I'm using does not have those. The Audio tab has the PCM samples option. Previously, all of these settings would have appeared in a separate frameserver setup dialog (you remember the one) that popped up after you hit Export; that dialog is no longer part of the workflow. As such, you'll now be able to save frameserver encoding presets that could be batch applied in the AME queue.

The second enhancement is that the frameserved AVI is no longer called "signpost.avi" by default; rather, like any other item exported from PPro, it takes the name of the queued clip or sequence, so you have unique signpost AVI file names. A trifle, perhaps, but I'm getting there...

The third enhancement--mostly in concert with the above--is that because that dialog is gone, there is no longer the "Next" button on the Setup dialog. Now, once you hit Export (or the AME queue begins), the signpost AVI is writte, the frameserver status window comes up, and frameserving is active. Simple change, but that sets up the next cool feature...

There will now be a user-configurable "timeout" that will be set in the export settings that will essentially terminate the current frameserving process (basically, an automated click of the "Stop Serving" button) when frames are no longer being served after that duration of time. So, let's say you set the timeout for 120 seconds; ordinarily, as encoding of the signpost AVI was continuing, frames would be continuously streaming through the frameserver even if encoding was slow. As long as that is happening, the frameserver stays active for that particular encode. Once the third-party app stops requesting frames--which it will do once encoding is completed--the timeout timer kicks in and when that duration elapses (in our case, 120 seconds), the current frameserver is terminated. If we have a number of frameserved items queued in AME, when that first one terminates, AME will automatically go to the next item; because we no longer have to manually click the "Next" button (see why that's important now ), the next frameserver instance launches. This automatic start and stop procedure will continue until all items in the AME are processed.

Now, obviously what this necessitates is having a third-party encoder that employs watch folders--I seem to recall that you are a Sorenson Squeeze user, so you're covered. Basically, you'd create a watch folder in your third-party app, and then set the frameserver to create the signpost AVIs in that watched folder; as each signpost AVI appears in the folder, the third-party app will encode it. Since the frameserved AVI has a unique name, there is no issue with overwriting earlier encodes, since watch folders usually just append some suffix to the incoming file name. Once the third-party app stops pulling frames, the timeout timer engages, and the process continues.

I have not tested this yet, so I cannot yet comment on how it works, but that's the theory. What I am anxious to see is if this queue option can be combined with network frameserving; in my mind, this would be a truly awesome implementation, because you could then effectively offload your encoding to another system on your network, and continue working on your editing machine. Theoretically, you shouldn't incur too much of a performance hit, since all the host computer would be doing is dishing up frames across the network to another computer. We'd finally have a sort of cobbled together export farm!

Anyway, I know you asked for a brief explanation, but I'm not too good at being brief, if you haven't noticed Let me know if you have any questions or ideas on how to make this better. I think we're still in the cooking phase, so now is the time to refine this to work in a manner that we'd like. I should note that frameserving of HD assets and heavily-effected sequences is rather slow at this point (I believe that that was what plagued the CS4 frameserver), but the programmer is working to optimize this. So far, the guy has performed admirably, and has been receptive to feature requests and bug reports, so I have no doubt that this will happen.

Colin

EDIT: Oh, if you're up for a little more Google-translated fun, check out the thread that Vasya (the gentleman that has spearheaded this effort) is maintaining. There is quite a bit of interest by some of our overseas counterparts...

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LEGEND ,
Dec 05, 2010 Dec 05, 2010

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Got the idea now, thanks.  The watch folder was the missing piece of the puzzle for me.

Have you had a chance to test the timeout feature at all?

-Jeff

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LEGEND ,
Dec 05, 2010 Dec 05, 2010

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Not yet; the debug version I'm testing at this point doesn't actually even have the parameters in the Export Settings window. That part, however, is complete, if you look at the later screencasts above. Apparently the programmer is working on (or has completed) the timeout feature, and I've requested a version of that to test. To me, that ability to queue up exports like this is the major selling point; frankly, AME does most of what I need now, and I was using Sorenson 360 until CS Review came along and basically squashed that. However, I'm still not satisfied with AME's H.264 output; Squeeze does a better job of that, and Handbrake does an even better job for free! This is one of those things that, of course, I could survive without, but I'm sure that once it's available, it's going to open up many new possibilities.

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New Here ,
Dec 05, 2010 Dec 05, 2010

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Like I wrote earlier, I am interested in CS5 frameserver and I will drop several bucks for it. But first I would like to see this interlaced bug fixed since my all material is interlaced and I want to keep it interlaced after export.

Second question is what is codec speed? Realtime or? I am asking because Frameserver for CS4 was really slow (cca. 10% of relatime). It was not connected to my config (which is very good) because CS3 frameserver encoded with 120% of relatime.

Thanks.

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Explorer ,
Dec 05, 2010 Dec 05, 2010

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What your source video?

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LEGEND ,
Dec 05, 2010 Dec 05, 2010

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But first I would like to see this interlaced bug fixed since my all material is interlaced and I want to keep it interlaced after export.

Absolutely; obviously, this is critical to proper functioning of the frameserver. The developer is aware of the issue and working on a fix. I'm not sure if this was a regression introduced when the frameserver was converted to 64-bit, or just an issue with how the existing frameserver works with CS5. Clearly, this will be fixed.

Second question is what is codec speed? Realtime or? I am asking because Frameserver for CS4 was really slow (cca. 10% of relatime). It was not connected to my config (which is very good) because CS3 frameserver encoded with 120% of relatime.

General operation of SD footage seems fast; check out the screencasts above for some demonstrations of SD footage playing back and encoding. However, are you talking about effected or non-effected video? A clip or sequence without any (or many) effects plays back in realtime and randomly jumping around in the signpost AVI is very responsive. Obviously, once you stack a couple render-intensive effects on a clip, encoding and frameserving are going to slow down. Other factors like the encoder you're using and the format to which you are encoding are going to come into play as well.

HD, on the other hand, seems to be less responsive. Again, the developer is working on optimizing this, so there should be improvements.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 05, 2010 Dec 05, 2010

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UPDATE:

I'm playing with a new version of the frameserver as I write this. There are several new features, including those that have been mentioned previously and demonstrated in the screen recordings, and some that are just starting to coalesce. Most importantly, the automatic deinterlacing bug has been fixed, or appears to be fixed, anyway; I haven't been able to recreate the problem in my testing of this version. Also, I'm frameserving a DVCPROHD 720/24pN P2 MXF clip right now using my 2.26GHz Core2Duo laptop off a single hard drive, and playback is realtime in Media Player Classic HC. Granted, this isn't a real intensive test, but it is encouraging that improvements have happened and will continue.

Here's a screen shot of a sequence I queued from PPro to AME (simple DV clip) being frameserved to VirtualDub 64-bit:

frameserver-vdub64.png

Tomorrow, I'll try to do a brief screen recording of the frameserver in action, just in case anyone needs further proof

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LEGEND ,
Dec 06, 2010 Dec 06, 2010

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BIG UPDATE!

I just received a new version of the frameserver, and the problem of really slow performance has been SOLVED!

Here's the basics: apparently, in the CS4 version, the Maximum Render Quality was toggled on and hardwired into the code, so that regardless of that parameter's state in the Export Settings window, frameserved AVIs were always being rendered in Maximum Render Quality. This lead to the massive slow down in performance that we witnessed in the CS4 version and to an extent in the CS5 version.

However, the new version of the frameserver exporter now functions CORRECTLY so that the MRQ is off by default and is only enabled if you check the box in the Export Settings window. I just did a quick test with a brief but effect-laden sequence frameserved to Sorenson Squeeze; the old version took about 13-14 minutes to do this particular encode, whereas the new version took less than 2 minutes! Another test with enabling MRQ in the Export Settings window slowed the external encode back to about the 13 minute range, proving that the toggle works correctly now. Additionally, playback in software players and loading the signpost AVI into encoders is virtually instanenous now, with MRQ disabled. Honestly, I can't tell the difference between the file encoded with MRQ and the one without, so I think the speed increase is going to be the more important factor here.

We also have some other cool new features, like a UYVY color space mode (which I'm sure means something to somebody ) and the ability to network frameserve simply by saving the signpost AVI on a network share. Any computer that can access the share can encode over the network, effectively letting you offload your encoding to another system and letting you continue to edit on your main system. This feature is available due largely to the fact that the frameserver can now be queued from AME.

Coming soon: tighter integration with the Adobe interface (no extraneous pop-ups, even though they are minimal and relatively unintrusive now) and the auto-timeout feature. I didn't get to do a screen recording today, but will do one soon so you guys can see this thing in action. Not only is the FrameServer back, it's better than ever...

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New Here ,
Dec 07, 2010 Dec 07, 2010

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Thank you Colin for this information. It is really encouraging. How did you get this testing version? What should I do (or pay) to test it?

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2010 Dec 07, 2010

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Right now, there isn't a testing version available; since all the funds have not been collected yet to pay the programmer who is adapting the frameserver to 64-bit, it hasn't been made available for the general public. It was entrusted to me that I not distribute this version, and for the sake of seeing a final version with all the new functionality, I must respect those wishes. Once the money has been raised in full, the plug-in will be made available for general release. I'm going to do a screen recording here shortly of the plug-in in action, as proof of its functionality and new features. I can understand anyone's reluctance to contribute financially to the project--I was reticent at first--but it would help us bring this project to a successful close. If you feel you can contribute even a few dollars, a page has been set up with several donation options: http://photomir.dn.ua/debug/index.html

I'm putting in a few more bucks in a moment to help speed things along. I'll try to have a screen recording up within an hour.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2010 Dec 07, 2010

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ANOTHER UPDATE:

I had just completed a screen recording of the FrameServer in action, when lo and behold, another new version showed up in my inbox. As such, I've done a screen recording using this latest version, which demostrates the plug-in's functionality and some of the new features.

New in this update are a couple of new color space export modes--UYVY and VUYA--and the frameserving status is now integrated with the Export and Queue processes. With Export, there is no "frameserving" pop-up; instead it is the simple Encoding pop-up we're accustomed to, and with Queue, the status bar now shows the vide frame rate and audio sample rate. This contributes to a much cleaner interface and less clutter with the frameserver.

At this point, the only major hurdle left is the auto timeout function; this might appear today, but I don't know for certain. When I do receive that version, I'll do another quick screen recording to show how that functionality will work.

Please let me know if you have any questions or comments after you view the video below. If you can help push us closer to a final release version, your support would be greatly appreciated.

Click to view MP4 online or right-click and Save As to view locally.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2010 Dec 07, 2010

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Interestingly enough, the Premiere Pro CS5 5.0.3 update that just became available actually seems to make the frameserver work faster and more smoothly. Frameserved sections that were a little chunky to both playback or randomly access are now much more responsive. Wish I'd thought to have done a comparison test before installing the update--that would confirm that this isn't just a placebo effect--but I guess the most important fact is that the frameserver continues to function with the update.

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Advocate ,
Jan 12, 2011 Jan 12, 2011

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@ Colin

Nice group effort to getting the Frameserver up and running.  It looks like its close to done.

What program did you use for your screen capture ?

GLenn

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LEGEND ,
Dec 07, 2010 Dec 07, 2010

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AND YET ANOTHER UPDATE:

This is the big one, folks: the auto-timeout feature is now part of the FrameServer plug-in, and is fully functional!

There is a new option in the encoding settings for the frameserver that allows you to set a timeout of 10-120 seconds. You set this option for any frameserved AVI that you would like to automatically terminate when the frameserver is no longer pushing frames. The timeout can be used with either Export or Queue, but it's with Queue where it is most powerful.

If you send a number of frameserved items to the AME queue with timeouts set, you can have the signpost AVI files saved into the watch folder of a third-party encoder. When the encoder works through the first signpost file, the timeout begins counting down; when time is up, the current frameserver ends and the next one in the AME queue begins. The signpost AVI created by this frameserved item lands in the third-party encoder's watch folder, and the process continues. It works amazingly well. The real power of this would be to combine it with network frameserving, where your watch folder is somewhere on your network that both of your computers can access; your host machine is simply dishing out frames, while the render machine is the one doing the heavy lifting. This would all be happening in the background, thanks to the AME queue and the new timeout capability of the FrameServer.

I did a screen recording of this iteration of the plug-in in action; as before, please review and let me know if you have any questions.

Click to view MP4 online or right-click and Save As to view locally.

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Engaged ,
Dec 08, 2010 Dec 08, 2010

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Thanks so much for getting the word and the demos out there Colin.

This looks great.

If anyone thinks they might use this can I please urge you to contribute financially to the project, as Colin and I and others have done. Even a small contributions will benefit us all and help us get there soon!

Cheers

Mark

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LEGEND ,
Dec 08, 2010 Dec 08, 2010

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Thanks Mark! I appreciate you weighing in. I just threw $10 more into the hat, in the hopes that we can get this out to everyone sooner rather than later. I would guess that by next week, we'll have a final release version, assuming no show-stopper bugs are found, and that improvements and optimizations continue at the rate they have.

I'll keep you all posted...

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Contributor ,
Dec 08, 2010 Dec 08, 2010

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I just threw in $50 for this to happen.

This is a feature I have been waiting for since the release of CS5. Thank you so much, Taravasya for making this happen!

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LEGEND ,
Dec 08, 2010 Dec 08, 2010

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EXCELLENT! That is simply awesome--thank you so much for supporting the effort. We're working on some refinements to the timeout function now, but other than that, the plug-in is feature-complete, stable, and very usable. A final release should be imminent.

Again, thank you for your belief in this project and your generosity!

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Community Expert ,
Dec 09, 2010 Dec 09, 2010

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Looking forward to this.

Just chipped in a few bucks.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 09, 2010 Dec 09, 2010

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Thank you, Ann! We're trying something different with the timeout mechanism; I anticipate a new debug version today. Also, some other bugs--possibly performance-robbing ones--are in the process of being squashed. I'll keep you all posted...

FWIW: we're very close on collecting the necessary funds to pay the programmer, so if you can forgo your double soy latte for one day, your support would be greatly appreciated

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New Here ,
Feb 25, 2011 Feb 25, 2011

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Can someone confirm that you can frameserve to a watch folder on a shared network drive and compress the video with Squeeze running on a Mac that has access to the shared network folder?  I know it should be possible, but I'd like to hear that someone has done it.

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LEGEND ,
Feb 25, 2011 Feb 25, 2011

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Squeeze running on a Mac

Will not work. The frameserver is PC only, both for serving and for playback of the served AVI.

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