News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max

[lasvideo]

Join us today at our #AdobeMAX keynote, live at 9:30 a.m. PT with CEO Shantanu Narayen and SVP @DWadhwani: http://adobe.ly/AdobeNext

[bababongatwo]

Also very interessting... Telling a lot about the situation of Adobe...

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5438175#5438175

Wonder, what game they play. More and more.
And I think also: The Core-Apps will never see a great Update for a long, long, long time...

Adobe is going in the direction of useless, unwanted sync- and share- and pad-gimmicks.

Seems planless.

[Luvfilm]

Thanks to everyone who has posted reasons against eternal renting.  This is my last post concerning this.  I was explaining this CC stuff to my oldest son this morning and realized how much this bothers me.  I think it says it all when I told him that if a year ago, had Adobe sent me a shirt, I would have proudly worn it.  Today, if they gave me one, I would return it.  Regardless of what is promised, or may happen, the corporation speaks, even when they don't.  I will continue using Adobe products now as tools.  I like the tools and will use them, but my loyalty to Adobe is tarnished.  Maybe just another lesson learned in life.  Unless I receive an email from Adobe some day, week, month, or year telling me of any changes, I will continue to use the tools I have that were designed by very talented engineers and when necessary move to other ones.  My hat is off to those who push the envelope to create these incredible tools.    I can not, I will not be a part of this new Adobe order.  Call if old fashioned, ethics, principles, whatever- it is not for me.  For awhile I have taken the time to check this site regularly to see what is going on and if Adobe had released any information.  I have better things to do with my time.  I don't get the impression that I am alone in this.  I am going to be watching and checking out a newly released version of a competitor.  

Good luck to those hoping for a change in the administration's thinking.

Ciao

[lasvideo]

Well said.  +1000!

[lghtanddrk]

Very well said.  I think there are far more poeple that share this sentiment than Adobe realizes.  This new business plan of theirs is only going to hurt them in the long run.  I'm sticking with CS5.5 and will also be watching the horizon for something better from one of Adobe's competitors.

[blackrosekiller]

I really feel that Adobe is operating under deceptive business practices.  Users wanting to get CS6 have to jump through hurdles to find the upgrade button or get the trial.  It's just not obvious.  Many links lead you right back to CC. 

Adobe is broadcasting an "I don't care" message to their core and loyal supporters that they have had for years.  I'm really looking now at moving to another platform.  Between their new subscription plan and the unforgiveable CS6 bugs that have lingered for far too long, Adobe has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

Shhem on you Adobe!  For all the new bells and whistles you're adding to CC, it means nothing if you start losing your core fans.  It's the core fans that have sung your praises for years and never switched to Final Cut Pro or Avid.  With so many alternatives, you would do wise to revisit this new business plan of yours. 

We keep hearing you say "stay tuned" about the CS 6 bug fixes.  I'm guessing that we won't hear anything until the introductory price for CC has expired.  It's obvious that you want CC subscribers so why make an alternative appealing by fixing CS6, something that should already be working and something that will not give you continuous revenue.  My guess is that after the dust clears and the introductory prices have gone away we are going to get a message saying that we are very sorry but the bug cannnot be addressed at this time or some other smoke screen.

I'd never wish ill on anyone but boy do I hope your new subscription plan feels miserably and you learn the error of your ways.  Then you're going to really need to appeal to your fans to win us back once again.  If anyone from Final Cut, Avid or Vegas Pro is monitoring this forum, now is your chance to swoop in and gain some new followers because it's obvious that Adobe doesn't give a darn.

[Biggles_Lamb]

So what does Corel do?

Announce that from an upcoming date owners can only update their software from the previous version at a discounted rate.

Another company who lack forsight, imagination and customer care?

Is this typical of big American Companies?

Col

[bababongatwo]

BJKad wrote:

As I said in an earlier post, it will be a year or two before we know how financially successful Adobe has been.  For me, CS 6 should be adequate for that length of time.  When I need to, I will consider alternatives.  I will not forget and Adobe will not be a "favored" provider.  It's a business decision.

Seems like CS6 will become the WIN XP of Adobe : )

I´m also of the opinion: They will not change anything. As their stock prices nearly recovered today and as they could mollyfy their loved share holders - It seems like they will bring it to the end. No answer from their side - only bushwah and half-truth and playing interest again and again and again. You can write here what ever you want - they only kidding about.

The only option for us is: Keep CS6 alive and search for alternatives. Works for me in video-editing and web-design. Illustrator also not such a big problem. Only thing not 100% replaceable is Photshop. But CS6 is still good enough and if necessary (competitors will not take their chance) I will keep it running the next ten years or longer.
I don´t believe, that they will reach their long-time business targets (Kick out 6 mio users, hold 4 mio Cloudies and milk them as much to rise income to a satisfying level... Prices MUST rise enormous even if anything works as Adobe hopes. And then let´s see what Cloudies do...).

May be, we can see an competitor in a few years, buying that complete company for $1 and bring it back on earth from their cloud position.
This leader board will never turn back. Take every bet.
They want you to rent your archive (and like the dollars in their pockets) - or better: pay, pay, pay, pay, pay,....

[Steven L. Gotz]

Biggles,

The numbers I threw out are not what I thought we should have to pay. They are the high end of what Adobe could possibly justify.

Remember that you got a discount for owning CS6. So taking that into account, if you paid $900 over two years, and you would normally have paid about $600 for an upgrade anyway, and you have had acccess to more services (if you used them or not), then basically you have justified the payments against an upgrade. But Adobe knows they are losing that income so they will want to charge something. How much to charge? However much they can and still get people to pay.

So maybe it is $300 for CS6 owners after 2 years. $200 after 3 years or more. If they think that people will pay that much for the privilege of opting out, then they should try charging that and see what happens. After all, it is money they would have not had otherwise and would almnost certainly help them retain many customers in the first place.

I don't know if $200, $400 or $600 or more is the right number. They have people who should be able to figure that out.

Think about it for you personally. Think about how much you would pay three years from now if you decide to stop using Adobe products and only wanted to have them available in case someone wanted you to work on an old project, and that would happen enough that $75 for a single month would not be the right answer for you.

It is a complicated question and might not really be answerable until the time comes and you know why you are stopping.

All I am really saying is that Adobe should figure this out, announce the plan, and settle so many people's fears.

[Biggles_Lamb]

Steven

An existing CS 6 user in the UK will pay £1175 in CC subscriptions in the next two year

Now if the new CC was CS 7 and it was subject to a price increase then an upgrade cost would likely be £700

That would last for the next two years ergo after two years you have already paid way more in subscriptions than the cost of the software upgrade

Therefore for an existing user if a buy out was available then it should only be a token amount

As for revisiting projects once its gone it remains on my system for six months then its history.

Or rather its a MPEG 2 HD and a HD MP4 file in the archive so I can burn another disc and I can burn another disc because I still have Encore and Edius

From the problems that have been posted and the new feature list I just cannot justify the CC, my cash will go to other producers.

On my steam powered laptop I still have and use CS3, Photoshop does all I want and Premiere CS 3 can even handle transcoded AVCHD, so what is the point?

The answer is simple....choice.

Col

[Luvfilm]

Who is to say if Adobe management keeps its workers in a cloud....where it seems they would like all of us to be.

With the need by shareholders to make more money, and the pattern of people not upgrading their software every time a new version is released, they may have seen the writing on the wall.  I mean how many new compelling things are going to happen to make people want to upgrade every time?  The idea of the cloud thing, from a moneymaking perspective could turn out very profitable for them.  Everyone pays for upgrades whether you want to or not, and you pay, pay, pay-or you don't play.  There will always be a mortgage and we will never build any equity.    I am sure there are people doing their work on older versions of Adobe products that are working just fine.  At the Apple WWDC, as I recall, only a small percentage of Windows users have gone for Windows 8.  With MS being a software company, I am sure that it is not good for their bottom line.  With Adobe's (hopefully for them),increased profits, they can lose a certain amount of their customers and be fine.  If the idea were to backfire, they would dance to a different tune.  Right now, I would not be surprised if they are trying to figure out if and how much revenue will be lost to the anti-renters. 

[TheCoroner9]

lasvideo wrote:

it would be very wise not to believe to much of what Adobe says these days. Their actions speak decibels louder then their words.

I received an Adobe survey tonight  called "You talk, we listen. Adobe needs your feedback: Please take this survey!" since I'm a CS6 production premium owner. Of course it was a joke - first question about Adobe  asked how  likely I was to use CC in the next 2 yrs. When I selected Highly Unlikely. The survey immediately ended and said I didn't qualify to take it.  No asking why I was highly unlikely to use CC.

Adobe doesn't really want to know what we think. Even the title of their survey was a lie.  I can't respect this company at all.

[Andy_Bay]

You are not alone. Actually over 4000 people have signed the petition to stop this madness, and the number keeps growing:

http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-su...

When we reach 10 000 - 20 000 I wonder if Adobe will do some basic math. For example, the fact that I will not buy new Adobe products anymore will cost them around 500 $/year. In ten years that will be 5000 $. If 10 000 other people like me stick to their guns, the loss of revenue will be 5000 x 10 000 = 50 000 000 $.

Fifty million dollars of almost pure profit lost in a ten year time period. I think you could create some pretty nice software with that kind of money. And this is money I would be happy to give to Adobe. All they would have to do is give me a perpetual license. That doesn't cost them almost anything to do (since it's delivered digitally) but they turn down my money (which will never be going to the cloud).

To be in the greatest business in the world, in which you only sell digital copies for a nearly 100% margin, and turn down free money, sounds crazy to me. I hope it will sound just as crazy to Adobe stockholders.

[dsfsdsdfsdffdsf]

TheWarder wrote:

Why do we have to rent the service? I want to own what i pay for… You cant sit here and tell me just cuz you work for Adobe that you think this is fair? That paying adobe for the rest of my life and never recieving a product i accutaly own  if fiar... (not that i will pay a dime to this absurd service) Also what good are the services to someone like me who just uses Photoshop for hobby purposes.

[snip]

Let's break down your scenario to a raw dollar argument.

I'm presuming you own CS6, and you've gotten there via an upgrade from an older version of Photoshop (CS3? CS4?). So that's about $1k for the inital purchase and between $350 and $670 for the upgrade. In addition you have Lightroom, which you purchased for $300 (old price) or $120. So in total over 6 or less years you've spent approximately between $1470 and $1970. Even using the lower amounts and longer dates that equates to at least $245 a year.

Under the new CC regime you'd keep your existing copy of Lightroom (no need to go the cloud version as the standalone box edition will continue to be offered in the future), and subscribe to a single title account for access to Photoshop. Over the next 6 years, assuming you sign up for 12 month subscriptions and upgrade your box Lightroom every new version you'd be up for the following:

Lightroom upgrades (assuming releases every 18 months): 3 x $75

CC subscription: first year $120, subsequent years $240

Total: $1545, so $257.50 per year.

That figure comes down the longer you delay signing up to the cloud. But assuming you sign up immediately that's $12 more expensive than the box model. Really? That breaks the bank?

My personal belief is that if you are a hobbyist with the cash to splurge on Photoshop, the CC model shouldn't be an issue at all. I use the CC at work and have for months - I'm really happy with it and there are serious saving for us multi-program users. At home though there's NO WAY I can justify owning the professional Photoshop package, partly because I don't make money from using it at home, partly because I choose to spent my cash in other ways. So I stick with what I can afford - Lightroom and an old student version of Photoshop from way back when I was at uni. It does the job and I've never felt the need to explore options elsewhere. But you know what, I'm free to, as are you.

[Andy_Bay]

But assuming you sign up immediately that's $12 more expensive than the box model. Really? That breaks the bank?

It's not really about the dollars. It's about not owning anything after the subscription ends. Which means you can't access your own work anymore. Basically you are being held hostage by Adobe and you have to keep paying and paying, no matter what the price might be in the future, if your own work is dear to you. It's not about the dollars. It's about not wanting to give power over your work to a publically traded monopoly company with a reputation of doing whatever it feels like doing to it's long time paying customers.

If you are happy about the idea of paying Adobe forever, no matter how little improvements they might make to the software in the future, then creative cloud is a great option for you!

[TheWarder]

First off let me say i own all those products for life. Even if i had paid more for them, which i didnt, i will not own anything from  CC so i either pay for life or i have nothing. So the price of my CC subscription would be more like ehh lets see im 25 now average age is around 85 you do the math.... I currently own CS5 Extended which i paid little for because i got the student edition and i have had lightroom 3 which i got a while back from new egg for $100 and i upgraded to lightroom 4 for 80.... so yeah when you dont do this for a living you find ways to save money no reason paying full price when im not making money off my hobby. I cant find any way to save money with CC.

In the end I am spending more money with CC and im being forced to pay for life end of story. Anf for what? To own nothing?

[Kevin-Monahan]

TheWarder wrote:  I want Photoshop and lightroom period the end nothing else...

You do realize you're posting in the Premiere Pro forum, don't you? Would you like me to move your posts to the Photoshop or Lightroom forum?

Thanks,

Kevin

[Anthony_Abegglen]

In a way I am glad that Adobe , has made my mind up for me, I will go on usesing CS6 till I cannot get any use out of it and spend my money Grass Valley  Edius Pro and upgrade every year, I for one will portest the CC via me spending my money on GV Edius for now and the near futrue So As Douglas Adams said "So long and Thank you for the fish"

PS hint hint....... Maybe Adobe if you so concerned about piracy, you should find out how GV Edius Pro 6.5 has not been able to be hacked or cracked since it was launched last year.........

[ntreuter]

Another good possible solution would be to eliminate the yearly requirement and just make it month to month. ANd maybe even also offer weekly or daily access rates to the CC components. Then hobbyists could shoot video, etc. and just pick a few days where they want to do their editing.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

[Steven L. Gotz]

@Joe's Picture

It took me two looks to figure it out. Give me a break, it is still early and I have only had a couple of sips of a caffeinated beverage.

@ntreauter

They have a monthly subscription. It just costs more.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

[able123]

good one...Joe, if it takes off I wanna be considered as one of the " colorists ".. you know..the people that color in the drawings...

hehe.. you are very funny..

AND ITS BEER THIRTY ! YIPEE

[lasvideo]

Anthony - "I will go on usesing CS6 till I cannot get any use out of it"

Exactly my plan as well. Adobe spent all year fine tuning it. I love editing with PrP and AE CS6. Now I will get my moneys worth 

[tclark513]

Here's our answer Lasvideo!  Really looking forward to checking this out.

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve

And it's even free!

[R Neil Haugen]

Well, I just spent some time at the NAB show ... and watched as pro after pro using Resolve came over to watch the Speedgrade demo ... and were quite interested. It would seem that for a lot of people who deliver content for pay the ability to combine an NLE and grading program together in their workflow has become a major plus. Even for a couple of the ones I talked with who mostly work as a colorist, but for a TV station or smaller production house where one oft  does wear multiple hats these days ...