News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max

[lasvideo]

Join us today at our #AdobeMAX keynote, live at 9:30 a.m. PT with CEO Shantanu Narayen and SVP @DWadhwani: http://adobe.ly/AdobeNext

[Jim_Simon]

in reality there have not been any significant improvements in the functionality of Premiere [since] CS3

In reality there have been many.  If you don't see them, you'd not looking.

CS 5.5 edits my AVCHD files so why on earth should I upgrade

The same reason as it's always been, regardless of license.  You want the new features.  If you don't want them, don't upgrade.  I skipped both 3 (whose major claim to fame was Mac compatibility) and 5.5 because they didn't offer anything I wanted.

[Jim_Simon]

If I can't vote with my wallet, the I can't really vote anymore.

Why can't you?  If PP no longer suits your needs in the future, you move to another NLE, just like all the new FCP editors moving to PP.

I also think you forget a couple of great options:

You're right about 5 as an option.  6 is more of a 'hope' than a choice.  And it's a hope I have no issue with.  Just be sensible with your noise, rather than using fear, ignorance and exaggeration.

Did you see what happened to Netflix when they tried to do something their customers didn't want?

Peripherally.  I knew about the proposed change, and then the reversal.  The same could well happen here, I don't know.  What's this got to do with being sensible in your objections?

How many times is it ok for Adobe to multiply the price before people can start with some hyperbole?

Never.  Keep it sensible at all times.  Otherwise you come across as someone venting irrationally, rather than someone expressing a valid complaint.

[lasvideo]

9000 and heading to 10,000 in petition land. Pointless, maybe. But it feels real good to see.

Just as good as it felt to cancel my subscription after thinking long and hard about it. I think liberating comes to mind. Your right Jim, voting with my wallet was the thing to do. Standing up to a vain attempt to strong arm me into eternal rental was just not in the cards. Adobe may have a lot, but they dont have me. And that also feels real good.

[Jim_Simon]

Your right Jim, voting with my wallet was the thing to do.

Thank you.  You looked at it, you considered it, you decided.  Sensible all around.

[Andy_Bay]

If I can't vote with my wallet, the I can't really vote anymore.

Why can't you?  If PP no longer suits your needs in the future, you move to another NLE, just like all the new FCP editors moving to PP.

I feel like I have explained the reason a hundred times and you just refuse to understand it. If I have all my project files in the Cloud format, then I can't access them anymore. It's that simple. This was NOT the case when Final Cut users switched to Premiere. Can you see the difference? Hint: Final Cut was not rentalware, so FCP users can still access their old projects if needed, even if they switched to CS.

Just be sensible with your noise, rather than using fear, ignorance and exaggeration.

Fear should be used when it's justified fear. It's like telling my child not to go to the big road, because a car might hit him. Perfectly rational fear.

But where exactly am I being ignorant? I think I understand the new model perfectly well and no one has pointed an error in my understanding of it. And where am I exaggerating?

If there is hyberbole, it's because people are mad at Adobe for trying to pull out this greedy monopolistic move. I think they have every right to be mad. This is the most aggressive move I have ever seen a publicly traded company make towards it's customers during my life. It will not be forgotten and I believe it will mark the beginning demise of yet another corporate giant. You can call it hyperbole if you want. I have faith in the people and in the fact that no company, no matter how big in size, has ever survived by means of extorting it's customer base.

[tclark513]

I feel like I have explained the reason a hundred times and you just refuse to understand it.

Just ignore him.

[Jim_Simon]

I feel like I have explained the reason a hundred times and you just refuse to understand it.

Finally, a mutual sentiment.

[lasvideo]

Thee Adobe Petition is at 11,000 and climbing steadily. It should be interesting to see how many signatures there are on June 17 when the CC is released. I love seeing how international the backlash is.

[John T Smith]

I personally don't think that any petition will make Adobe management change their minds

What Andy just wrote in #747 is what will get the attention of Adobe management

The stock price, and any reduction in income, is the language spoken by Adobe management

[lasvideo]

Maybe...maybe not.The combined effects of many indicators may have a synergistic effect. . Im just enjoying watching the numbers rise.

[tclark513]

672. Mark Mapes,

    

  May 9, 2013 6:33 PM    in reply to TheWarder 

Report

I just came from an all-hands meeting hosted by the executive vice-president of the Digital Media Business Unit. Both his initial comments and the Q&A were dominated by the Creative Cloud announcement and its aftermath. I think we touched on every major concern and reservation that's been raised in this thread (and, I gather, elsewhere across this forum and others). Two broad-stroke points that are worth sharing:

1. You have been heard. Adobe employees from the rank and file in the trenches up to top executives are reading these threads and noting the recurring themes.
2. Responses are in the works, ranging from clarifications on points of confusion and misinformation to measures that address particular concerns.

So stay tuned. It may be a week or more before all the new information is rolled out. I expect it will collected in some central location. We'll post links here.

You never know.  An Adobe emploee posted this a few pages back and I am interested in what he means by "measures that address particular concerns"

[Jim_Simon]

Given that Adobe plans to sell CS6 indefinitely, has anyone considered making a feature request for a Save as CS6 File... capability?

[JFPhoton]

.....Adobe sure knows how to mess up a good thing by being greedy and unfair. As bad as this new "Creative Cloud Extortion" plan will be HERE in the States...I was shocked to see how HIGH it will be in Harm's Netherlands and other places. I do NOT see how they will attract new users who are YOUNG and have limited funds, just starting out. They are opening the door for competing companies to provide software for these people that is more affordable. It appears they are aiming at INDUSTRIAL SCALE businesses ONLY....like HP does with their expensive pre-built corporate workstations. Adobe seems NOT to recognize that over 90% of ALL businesses in the US are SMALL businesses....with a SOLE PROPRIETOR as owner. Just as a new world-wide renaissance is developing in the digital dissemination of information amongst billions of people across the globe....Adobe is SHUTTING THEMSELVES OFF  from the young, FINANCIALLY LIMITED, sole-proprietors who will be the future CREATORS of new and highly specialized media. Young ,enthusiastic computer users have ALWAYS looked for a CHEAPER way to get the best performance without spending the big bucks.........Harm's overclocking of the 3930 CPU is a good example.  During the Viet Nam war President Johnson said : "....if we've lost Walter Cronkite, we've lost THE COUNTRY".  Johnson then did not run for re-election. In THIS case.....if Adobe has lost Harm Millaard, they've lost THE EDITORS !!!....

[Steven L. Gotz]

Adobe is SHUTTING THEMSELVES OFF  from the young, FINANCIALLY LIMITED, sole-proprietors who will be the future CREATORS of new and highly specialized media.

The price of CS6 was around $2500. The price of a subscription is $50. That lets more people in, not less.

Yes, I know it is $50 forever. But $2500 is 50 months. Over four years. Meaning that lots and lots of new features and upgrades will be delivered. 

Will it cost more in the long run? Perhaps. In fact, most likely. But it opens the door.

[Keano66]

To me, Harm Millaard IS the GURU!. It amazes me that Harm, as far as I know it,  does not even get paid from Adobe for his valuable insight.into Premiere Pro. I wouldnt even bother ringing up Adobe customer services for Premiere Pro issues - I would simply mail Harm Millaard. Harm knows the product - a guy in a call centre in India does not even come close.The fact that even Harm has raised issues regarding the cloud thing speaks volumes. Adobe have shot themselves in the foot with this rental scheme. Adobe could have ruled the world (with the FCP people coming over) The ball was on the line and they had an open goal!  Instead, they have completely shot the golden goose with subscription based lease software. The Adobe management is a joke.

[Andy_Bay]

If you lock yourself into a subscription, you are making yourself very vulnerable to what ever Adobe thinks is the best way of milking you in the future. This is IMHO blind faith in a company that has already proven not to be trustworthy.

I would not rejoice over a small initial discount (that will be lost anyway in the future) when at the same time you loose your all your freedom.  Adobe is like a candyman, offering you cheap candy and then taking you captive.

[personal comments removed]

[woodyherman]

Most of the young up and comers get the student pricing or just hack in like too many others do. So your 50 dollars for 50 months does not make sense in this dicussion. Also if a student wants to enter this industry he or she needs to leard AVID as the majority of big players continue to use this for their video editing needs. After Effects is a must learn tool so that is where Adobe come in aling with Photoshop. despite what many of adobe users want to believe Premiere is used by independents and prosumers. They were making head way recently but for $295 if i was a student starting out I would be all over Avid Media Composer.  

[irrelevant and personal comments removed]

[Steven L. Gotz]

So your 50 dollars for 50 months does not make sense in this dicussion

I was just using the current maximum. My price is much lower because it is my wife's account. As long as she has a full time teaching job and uses at least one program occasionally, I feel no guilt over user her subscription.

Also if a student wants to enter this industry he or she needs to leard AVID as the majority of big players continue to use this for their video editing needs.

Yes, they do. But multiple programs will round out their education. It is important to keep up with the times and if Adobe happens to overcome this latest issue, who knows? My niece starts film school next Fall. I am looking forward to hearing about what they are going to teach her. She just won an award (with small scholarship) from Robert Redford.

Also when do all you posters find time to actually edit? I keep seeing the same names on this discussion and in fact they are the same folks who try and answer all the questions, I assume they all have old computers and are  rendering  most of the day,

Actually, when I got a new, fast PC, I started doing things that required even more processing power than was eliminated by the use of a CUDA card. I don't render in Premiere Pro much anymore, but using After Effects, well, that's another story.

But that isn't the answer to your question. Not in my case anyway.

I have multiple hobbies. I still shoot and edit video for money occasionally. But I have taken up Photography as a hobby, and will expand more into video as a hobby again eventually. Once I get control of my camera as a natural extension of myself. It is every bit as difficult to take good pictures as I was warned it would be. Perfectionists have trouble finding shots that they like. What can I say? I am a technician, not an artist. Becoming an artist is a goal. A difficult one it seems.

But another hobby is helping people. I like to answer questions. I owe a lot to the people who were around to answer my question on Premiere 6.0 and I owe a lot to the people who helped my when I dropped out after CS3 and came back to CS6 on the cloud. Also, since quite often, people ask questions that I think I would like to know the answer to, I try to figure it out. It is an obsession. I like to figure stuff out. And I like to help people. I am getting older and it is good for my kharma, but honestly, I have always been that way.

My guess is that I am not alone in this.

I have to admit that because of hanging around the forums, I met people who helped me get jobs revising books, editing books for technical accuracy, producing tutorials for what has turned into quite a revenue stream over the years, and reviewing other people's tutorials. All of that has made me enough money over the years to pay for my software and my computers since 2004. Plus, back before I dropped out for a few years, I used to beta test Adobe software and therefore got it for free. Until the Creative Cloud, I had not paid for Adobe software since 2004. Talk about a price increase!

So, is it a hobby or part time job? Mostly hobby, but you should get the idea.

[Jeff Bellune]

I have edited and deleted some recent posts in this topic to remove comments of a personal nature and to keep the bickering down to reasonable levels.  This discussion is a good one, and useful to many people.  But if things turn nasty, I'll lock it.  Please keep it civil, and try to understand the other person's point of view.  What may be good for someone is not necessarily good for someone else.  That goes both ways.

Jeff

EDIT: I replied to Steven, but only because his was the most recent post.  My warning applies to everyone participating here.

[Biggles_Lamb]

Well done Jeff, need to drop trying to convince the Pro CC and Anti CC groups that our way is the only way

As I see it there are different users

(1) New full price users

(2) Current CS owners

(3) New students

(4) Existing students

(5) New teachers

(6) Existing teachers

(7) Institutions qualifying for a subsidy for being a new users

(8) Institutions who qualify for a discount and are existing CS users

Now it may well be that there is just the one subsidy available, but for how long will this continue, and what will happen in the future?

So each user needs to financially model their own usage and decide for themselves what will work for them

I have just searched the net and found the CS 6 Production Premium Suite for $1200 which is still quite an outlay in terms of cash but is it worth the outlay?

For CC membership it is $50 dollars for new users which is $600 per year so a break even occurs in 2 years

Now if a CS X is released in say 18 months the CS 6 user updates the package which would probably be $360 which in turn would make the break even point 2.6 years and so it rolls on

For an existing full CS5.5 user the cost to upgrade to CS6 is presently $360, instead they subscribe and pay $50 per month then in a little over 7 months they pay more with the subscription

There again the CC user has access to the many, many new cool features that are available, are they worth the extra costs in terms of subscription, that is for the user to decide. 

So do your own financial modelling and then do precisely what suits you, just be careful to way up all the pros and cons of the models you use

FINALLY

I wonder just how long the activation servers for non CC users will be maintained, has anyone considered that?

[Luvfilm]

The ball is in Adobe's court.  They know what some people are thinking.  There are options out there.  Depending on what Adobe does will decide what I and I am sure some others will do.  Maybe another company will pick up the small time user, hobbiest, and those not desiring to be full time/ life time renters.  Apple had iTunes for Mac only and then they came out with the Windows version.  Things change.  I'm going to get out of the ring for now.  Adobe could make this right.  I wonder how many people were waiting to upgrade their software and then, Oh, by the way.  Things are different now.  No.  We didn't tell you.  Well, we know what is the future and what is best for us.  Even Apple (although they are hardware driven) with all of its controls, lets you own your software.  If you buy software it is yours.  You buy a new computer, you download the software you have purchased onto your computer.  Adobe knows all this.  They know exactly what they want to do.  I am sure they anticipated losing some customers.  If the profit potential for what they are doing was not there, it wouldn't be happening.  I hope that as things cool down, Adobe doesn't think that the anti-Cloud for themselves people were just venting and will now get with the program and sign up.  We will vote with out money.  And maybe they won't offer what some want.  I am sure that someone will.

[JFPhoton]

.....I believe Stephen missed my MAIN POINT !!...that Adobe is NOT AFRAID to set a high price on its products.....as shown in the Netherlands example !! How can a young person...not a student anymore...hitch his wagon to a product where the price could SKYROCKET in the future ...as is the case in Holland RIGHT NOW !!! Adobe has MISLED its customers before and surely will AGAIN!    As I said before..... their PUBLISHED MINIMUM HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS were BOGUS !!!!! I would be willing to BET that IF NOT FOR HARM AND BILL.....many users would NOT have been able to even put together a system that would EVEN WORK!!!! These "victims" would SURELY have turned away from PPro in frustration......I know......I was ONE of them !   How EVIL is it that they have found a repair to the "spanned clips and AVCHD bug" but will NOT provide it to EXISTING CS6 CUSTOMERS!!!   And you are going to TRUST THEM not to GOUGE YOU in the FUTURE !!! I believe Adobe MUST come up with a better solution......the Cloud offering is very tempting and probably IS the best way to DELIVER the best product.....HOWEVER.....A SAFEGUARD MUST BE PROVIDED for customers who may "opt out " because the price SKYROCKETS in the future, ( esp. with the proposed new "internet sales tax in the US), or, for any other reason. In addition.....their pricing should be FAIR and CONSISTENT on a global basis.....not GOUGING people in certain markets !!!

[Kevin-Monahan]

JFPhoton wrote:

.....I believe Stephen missed my MAIN POINT !!...

NOT AFRAID

SKYROCKET

RIGHT NOW !!!

MISLED...

JFPhoton,

Please keep it civil and try to understand the other person's point of view, as Jeff just said. Shouting in capital letters is not being civil.

Thanks,

Kevin

[JFPhoton]

...of course !!.....next time i will use italics !!!!!....how does this sound !!!........hah!

[Jeff Bellune]

JFPhoton wrote:

...of course !!.....next time i will use italics !!!!!....how does this sound !!!........hah!

Actually, ordinary punctuation with italics for occasional emphasis would work better.  Thanks.

Jeff