News on Premiere Next at Adobe Max

Report · May 06, 2013

Join us today at our #AdobeMAX keynote, live at 9:30 a.m. PT with CEO Shantanu Narayen and SVP @DWadhwani: http://adobe.ly/AdobeNext

Report · Jan 25, 2014

My, now 8 yrs old, Freehand runs perfectly in emulated environment. I can still work faster with it than with illustrator CS6 in many cases, have not any trouble with printers, or hazzle with exporting. And I think it will work also for a few more years.

That´s not assignable to most Apps, but I payed 0 $ for the use of my files since Adobe decided, to support it no longer.

If it was like the so called "Cloud" distribution, and if they only took 10$ a month for it, that´s an sparing of 960 $ (per seat).

Archiving a Master & the Footage is a minimum of safety for your files and it may work for most projects.
I´m often creating Fair-Trailers. They have to be modified only a little bit, when they go from one fair to the other. And they are sometimes used for years. Or used for years in parts of them.

Your way of archiving doesn´t work here. You have to held the project file accessible. No way to translate a Prem File to other formats with full functionality.

Even CS6 can´t read them.

For many people, CS3 can do nearby everything they want to do.

That there now is a so called "Cloud" doesn´t mean, all the older Apps are outdated. Or significant slower.

Report · Jan 25, 2014

I do find the "permanent owner" argument rather ... weak. As noted above.

Your beloved permanent-license version will also die as things change and it, the OS it works on, the gear it can work with, become outdated. Period. I don't care how much you state you'll keep a 'legacy' computer running ancient software JUST to play with the same project-file format from 10 years ago ... someday soon, that legacy machine is gonna be toast.

And I'll be using features in my tool-set you don't have. As long as I want to use them. And as the codecs aren't controlled by Adobe, I'll still have all my files to play with, so that part of the argument ... that I'll never have access to my files again ... is also vapid.

And ... as a company sets the prices on what they sell, no matter which model one likes, one is ALWAYS 'at the mercy of the company' for their products. Like 'em at the price & way of acquisition, fine. Don't like it ... fine.

You don't like the subscription to services model ... fine. We got that what, a year or two back? You're not winning against Adobe, they're getting along as good as any other such company; you're not winning adherents to your cause here, as well ... there's a lot of us who are fine with the subscription model, in fact prefer it (as I do) for sound business reasons; in short, you're not winning this by any metric I can see. So why argue about it?

As noted in another thread, that fact that SOMEWHERE in the world it's beer-thirty is ... realistically ...vastly more important to Life Well Lived.

Neil

Report · Jan 25, 2014

shooternz wrote:

They are tedious and untiring in their regurgitated arguments...

Those are obviously read untiringly by you... (and me)

If CC is an option as before, it´s OK, don´t hit me & many others, and must not fail. Even a serious buy out would have changed it in total.

Adobe should not be punished by market for their Apps & Products, but for the way and the conditions, they established this so called "cloud" (in my eyes)

I never thought or said, that all those, who are not of my opinion, have no doubt. Everyone has specific necessities, abilities, and so on.

Some must use the cloud, some are working with the cloud as a given tool by employer, some like the low-felt prices, some find the products great & the disadvantages don´t hit them very much and so on. Why should they have no doubt?

But especially in this thread about the Cloud, I can see so many needs (which ARE real needs) of users been mollified, by people who simply don´t have this needs (it seems) - or not today : ). Or simply try to ignore. Some arguments are killed with misleading or incomplete information.

Yes, it´s right - there are repetitions, like in many other threads too.

Report · Jan 25, 2014

R. Neil Haugen wrote:
I do find the "permanent owner" argument rather ... weak. As noted above.
Your beloved permanent-license version will also die as things change and it, the OS it works on, the gear it can work with, become outdated. Period. I don't care how much you state you'll keep a 'legacy' computer running ancient software JUST to play with the same project-file format from 10 years ago ... someday soon, that legacy machine is gonna be toast.
And I'll be using features in my tool-set you don't have. As long as I want to use them. And as the codecs aren't controlled by Adobe, I'll still have all my files to play with, so that part of the argument ... that I'll never have access to my files again ... is also vapid.
And ... as a company sets the prices on what they sell, no matter which model one likes, one is ALWAYS 'at the mercy of the company' for their products. Like 'em at the price & way of acquisition, fine. Don't like it ... fine.
You don't like the subscription to services model ... fine. We got that what, a year or two back? You're not winning against Adobe, they're getting along as good as any other such company; you're not winning adherents to your cause here, as well ... there's a lot of us who are fine with the subscription model, in fact prefer it (as I do) for sound business reasons; in short, you're not winning this by any metric I can see. So why argue about it?
As noted in another thread, that fact that SOMEWHERE in the world it's beer-thirty is ... realistically ...vastly more important to Life Well Lived.
Neil

No one is at the mercy of Adobe's products. It was a very easy and simple decision to take my business $ to their competitors when CC was released for editing films (and yes I had planned on upgrading to CS7-CS11000.)

When a company ticks off a lot of it's customer base - the noise isnt going away. I'm not worried about a permanent license and how the legacy machine will be outdated. That's what upgrades are for and I always upgraded - which I will do on Edius. After my final two CS6 projects are finished, I'm editing on Edius. No monthly fees, I'll give my $ to them for each future upgrade they come out with. Happy Customer. Happy Company.

Report · Jan 25, 2014

rains,

I'm still trying to figure out why ... other than at some gut-level basis ... you are SO unhappy with Adobe being able to change the model of their sales?

"Adobe should not be punished for their Apps & Products, but for the way and the conditions, they established this so called "cloud" (in my eyes)"

So ... because a company changes the model in which it produces and distributes its product, you think it should be punished? I really truly do not get this.

A good friend and business associate has a business where he provides computer servicing on a subscription basis. You pay him "x"/month, he does any maintenance your machine/s need, only additional fee would be for hardware that breaks or needs replacing. So rather than pay him a couple hundred ever so often on an irregular basis, you pay him a small bit a month. His clients seem quite happy with it ... as is he. Is that bad of him?

Our financial software is a subscription model, they even require a hasp on the computer their software is installed on for it to run ... is that evil of them? Should they be punished? More and more lawyers are adopting a subscription model ... is that Bad?

I guess what I'm wondering is ... if you have a problem with subscription services in general, or is it just Adobe?

Neil

Report · Jan 25, 2014

I'll give my $ to them for each future upgrade they come out with. Happy Customer. Happy Company.

And that, my friends, is exactly how we vote in a capitalistic society. With our wallets.

Just keep in mind, sometime people vote for things and are sorry later. Like some Americans who have had their health insurance cancelled.

artofzootography.com

Report · Jan 25, 2014

Hmmm ... be happy with Edius then. As to avoiding monthly fees ... yes, I'm paying monthly ... and as noted ... for about what I was paying for "permanent" licenses (that are anything but permanent of course) I'm now utilizing quite a number of programs ... so in the old model, I've have had to write out several LARGE checks in single pops, and paid out a lot more total, than what I'm paying annually for CC.

I'd rather pay a smallish regular fee than a few irregular big ones that in total, add up to a fair bit more than the smallish ones do. And again, I'm using a lot more software than I could have afforded to use the old way. Great business choice for me.

Neil

Report · Jan 25, 2014

Neil, I loved Adobe prior to CC. I always recommended their products when I spoke to film students.

I now recommend their competitor's products.

I, like many others, refuse to rent software. It's not about the cost of CC. CC could be $1 a month for everything and I wouldn't want it.

As customers, many have told them what we like and want to buy from, and Adobe doesn't want to take our business. They simply ignore their customer base which is growing more upset.

When you ignore customers, customers get mad. Customers complain. Few companies have good endings with products when those things happen.

If Adobe is willing to ignore the customer base which wants to pay them $ for a perpetual license. Don't think for a second that CC users won't be ignored in the future for something they want.

Report · Jan 25, 2014

R. Neil Haugen wrote:

Your beloved permanent-license version will also die

...Microsoft also thought

keep a 'legacy' computer running

...mostly emulation does it (I have to use very old files (> 4 yrs) not constantly)

to play with the same project-file ...

...seldom play with them

So why argue about it?

...it´s only worth to discus about things I can change?
...Should I take everything as it comes, because I think, I can´t change it?

beer-thirty

No doubt (really) what this means...

Report · Jan 25, 2014

beer-thirty

No doubt (really) what this means...

Maybe..

Report · Jan 25, 2014

Report · Jan 25, 2014

Sorry, but from my experience and what I've seen ... I don't see a "growing more upset" customer base.

I do see some of those who feel they haven't been able to force Adobe to change it's model getting angrier over time. And more vocal about it. I also realize most people decide whether they like working with a company's ways or not and move on. You never hear about or from them. And that on boards like this you'll get a bigger share of those who are dealing with a problem issue than those who aren't simply because those who are having a problem come here to "fix" it, and those who aren't ... just work. And then go play.

In my region ... well, I knew of one or two pros stopped using Adobe because of the CC model. One I know is back and using more Adobe than ever. In professional meet-ups, I haven't heard it talked about as an issue in a year. And walking around, most of the laptops with people working away are showing Adobe logos on the page. So at least around here there market penetration is doing just fine.

And the "I'll never 'rent' software argument it almost incomprehensible to me. Quite a few of the business apps my business uses are subscription only. I can't for the life of me see why it makes a difference if I pay a small fee per month or several hundred every few months. In fact, I prefer the small fee. I will over time constantly be paying money for software anyway.

So ... the only practical difference is you like to pay in big chunks, I like to pay in small chunks. If you were going to stay up-graded in Adobe stuff, that really is the only practical difference.

And ... if for some really, really odd reason, Adobe's user-base keeps on chooglin' and Adobe keeps on showing a profit and running this model ... at what point will you decide that maybe enough of their user-base prefers this model for them to have made a useful business choice?

Or if ... 10 year from now ... Adobe's still a-chuggin' along with a large user-base ... you'll still be waiting for that collapse you KNOW is coming ...

Personally, I prefer the "cloud" model. Rather than having Adobe focused on doing "Splash! Dazzle! Razmatazz!" with each new iteration in order to justify selling new product for big chunks of money, I'm happy to have them pick a sustenance-payment model and just tell their coders to go get to work. Less time & efforts in the marketing/sales end of things, proportionately more in the development side of things. With a solid, sustained income for the company. They've still got to please the users just as much as before, but ... they don't have to worry about razzle-dazzle so much. Don't need razzle myself. Just support. And that's actually been better of late, I'll give them that.

Neil

Report · Jan 25, 2014

I think, the services you are talking about, where on the same conditions from the beginning, right?

And you knew what you buy from day 1.

We once paid tremendous amounts for subscriptions of 3D Software on Silicon Graphic Machines. But we did under that conditions from the beginning
(and there were not much competitors at that time ; )

You write:

"because a company changes the model in which it produces and distributes its product"

CC IS NOT the same product. You will never see any announcement from Adobe, which is named as an Upgrade from CS6 to CC. Simply not possible (as far as I know by law).

They can make offers for former users & the Apps themselves are the same.

But the product they sell is the kind of license they offer.

So CS will die after they don´t sell any longer. And CC is something new.

There are many like me, who invested not only in the products themselves, but also in infrastructures around them - like PlugIns or Databases, Content Mgmt. Solutions or other additional Software (as Pitstop, which is used for the manipulation of PDFs). With changing the Software you will lose all that. And therefore you really have trouble to change to competition.
As I see now, that Adobe kills the access to my work (without further costs) if I end the deal, and I ( ! - may be others ) can´t see a real necessity for that - I am totally assure, that this is done to chain me.

Also: Changing the product this way is much more forcing, than simply change Apps.

I did all that in the trust, the things go on as they ever did (which was never guaranteed - indeed). Like many others.

I just have the feeling - I will never get away - if I want.
We will never see competition grow.

As all the Apps are bundled now - it´s also much harder to get away only in parts (Video/Web/Print)

I know, that it is a little bit harder to get it for the Video-People, because the necessity of changing old files isn´t very important for the many/most of users.

It´s totally different in the printing industry - where you can call Adobe nearby an monopoly. Workflows between Graphical Art-Workers and Printing Companies is based on (Adobes) PDF, Art-Work is mostly done (85-90%?) by Apps of Adobe, and so on.

People are still depended to these Workflows even if there wasn´t a so called "Cloud". But this dependency (or monopoly) gets much bigger now, because - if you once are in - you will be bind additional with the File Formats. It´s not that easy to convert files (you achieved/you get from your clients/and so on) to competiting software.

That´s not good for those, who want to see Adobe in a competiting market.

As it makes the entrance of competition nearby impossible (espec. for the printing sector). As Adobe is Nr 7 of SW-Makers worldwide - there are not many, who can do this... (and nearby none I would like to see doing this).

I have no problems with subscription-similar services, if they are logically needed. Telephone, Gas, Water - things which belong to your consumption.

The computer-service model you have given is OK (but what, if this service guy wil be paid for the use of your computer after the deal - not a good comparison, but a little bit in the direction)

But you are right: I like to buy and own. May be I´m conservative.

Also Software would be OK, when file formats are totally open & a real competition is existing.

Again: Video Apps are still having competition (and I think, that´s why we can see so many updates here, since the CC is not longer an option) - there are apple, Avid and others. The Adobe dominated Print-Sector has nearby NO competition. Hard work to avoid it... can tell you.

Also hard work for me to try writing that in a language I have no real knowledge about. Hope I could explain my thoughts.

Report · Jan 25, 2014

R. Neil Haugen wrote:

In my region ... well, I knew of one or two pros stopped using Adobe because of the CC model. One I know is back and using more Adobe than ever. In professional meet-ups, I haven't heard it talked about as an issue in a year....

May be there are really regional differences.

But from all my business partners a max. 30% are on CC.

15% on competition

& the rest is still on CS6.

No one - believe me or not - No one I talked with here, is happy about the distribution.

Report · Jan 25, 2014

No one - believe me or not - No one I talked with here, is happy about the distribution.

I would include myself in that matter ...but not for my own interest.

I feel for students, hobbyists and educational institutions.

Me..I have an arrangement that suits myself fine and I am comfortable with it.

Report · Jan 25, 2014

R. Neil Haugen wrote:
Sorry, but from my experience and what I've seen ... I don't see a "growing more upset" customer base.

And neither does Adobe despite all the complaining from this very forum, to Adobe TV on youtube (where they turned off commenting), to the Adobe petition that has consistently grown, to online articles about how wonderful CC is (check their comment sections at the end of the articles and you will find many complaints), to the Adobe sent surveys geared only to give CC supporters a chance to tell Adobe what they think as they heard too many complaints prior. The growing more upset customer base has been documented in Adobe's own forums from several different people with online links/etc.

If there was no growing more upset customer base then this very thread wouldn't still be active this long after the release of CC.
Show me a postive CC thread from happy supporters as long as this thread is.

Report · Jan 25, 2014

rains,

About the printing business ... yea, I totally understand that. Having one company be so dominant is not the best thing we'd all prefer. I prefer having both Apple and Windows going at each other ... and I wish more programs ported out for Linux's main "shades" also. More competition means more ideas tested and improved. I like that. Of course, Apple wants to dominate anything it touches too ... and then complains about Microsoft. Cool. Jobs took ideas from so many others, but like a kindergarten child, once he'd seen an idea, it was his. If someone else had an idea he liked, it was his. If he'd ever thought about using it but didn't, if someone else wanted to use it ... it was still his. Nice dude.

Really got how people like pretty outsides to things, though.

And probably there's a big difference between regions and especially between "industries". A LOT of "power" users in cine/video still are totally FCP or Avid or Vegas based, and of course ... a couple other big spendy programs also. Hey, if it doesn't cost $20k, how can you possibly say it's "professional" software? Adobe (as far as I can tell) is still trying to gain inroads to market share in that sector.

And in still images, well ... that's like printing, really. Adobe is THE Big Dog there. I've used several other apps, including Bibble and Capture One, but for us ... Lightroom and Photoshop simply do the job and we've stuck with them. As have most people. But I'm durn glad Aperture and Capture One are out there working hard at things, as are a couple other programs.

Neil

Report · Jan 25, 2014

Um ... "coroner" ... you might note that there are a number of us here posting to the effect that we do appreciate the cloud model. So ... go figure, people posting on other than an anti-Adobe rant. Wow.

And I've noted in many organizations I've been part of that a group of people who feel they've been slighted because the decisions made didn't go their way yell the longest and loudest. They seem to feel that simply by screaming the same things over and over that they can force the rest of the group to see their wisdom. And that crowd rarely ever gives up. I've seen it in our local professional organization ... some folks had issues so they created a competing organization ... and yet were still mad and complaining about their ORIGINAL complaints until the day they died 30+ years later. Wow.

Complain away. But please realize as you do ... those who may agree with you on some things but in general go along with the current model are not blind idiots, can actually make a solid financial decision that this is a usable or perhaps better model for them, and don't have to be an Adobe zombie to do so.

Adobe makes software that for the most part is pretty complicated stuff, used on ALL sorts of mechanical combinations and hodge-podges, and by people with massively different knowledge & interest levels on using it ... so just looking at that, there WILL be technical got-chas, no way around it; there will be trouble in using some features for many people because of the complicated and massive feature/option sets involved with complicated software; and some people will find it way too bizarre and others not bizarre enough to accomplish their needs, and complain about that also.

Shooternz, Jim Simon, myself, any other person noting we're ok with the "cloud" (even if not always thrilled) have all posted about trouble issues. We're not zombies, we're users. But by and large, the stuff works for us. Well enough we make a decision to keep using it.

If you are SO ANGRY with Adobe ... there's other stuff out there, you know? Or does the continuing ranting feed some inner need of some kin

And why in the world would happy users feel a need to vent about being happy users the way you need to vent? I've never seen that behavior in any other sphere myself ...

Neil

Report · Jan 25, 2014

R. Neil Haugen wrote:
Um ... "coroner" ... you might note that there are a number of us here posting to the effect that we do appreciate the cloud model. So ... go figure, people posting on other than an anti-Adobe rant. Wow.Neil

This thread is overwhelmingly negative.Comments on Adobe TV's youtube account were negative (thus the comments were turned off).

As I said - Show me a postive CC thread from happy supporters as long as this thread is.

Report · Jan 26, 2014

And the "I'll never 'rent' software argument it almost incomprehensible to me

Neil Haugen, I'm sorry you have trouble grasping why ownership is often preferred to rental. That must mean you wish to start paying rent for all your software, including your desktop computer and mobile phone operating systems.

Here's a few basic reasons to help you. Maybe you can outline which ones you fail to understand?

1. Ownership brings freedom. You buy it and you stop worrying. No constant internet-connections to your master. No credit card hassles. It's yours and you can count on that to be true forever, no matter what happens in the future.

2. When you buy to own, you know exactly the price you pay. When you set yourself up for lifetime rental, you have no idea about the price you need to pay after a few years. It could easily double or triple.

3. Ownership leaves you the ability to vote with your wallet. Don't like something Adobe does? Don't give them your money. Adobe can't punish you for that, unless you give them the ability to take away your software when you stop paying.

4. Ownership makes it possible to sell your asset, should you not need it anymore. You can't sell something you just rented, now can you?

Let me also point out, that your previous arguments about old software stopping to work are simply false. I guess you have never heard of emulators and virtual boxes, to make such a ridiculous statement? I can play computer games made in the early 90's if I feel like it. No need to worry about a "motherboard breaking".

Sorry, but from my experience and what I've seen ... I don't see a "growing more upset" customer base.

Numbers don't lie. There is more than 4.4 million CS6 licenses. How many CC customers are there? Not even half of 4.4 million, regardless of the cheap Photoshop campaign. If CC is such a hit, why isn't there already more than 4 million+ CC customers? With all the newbies running for this great "oppoturnity" of a cheap starting price? Care to explain that?

Report · Jan 26, 2014

Guys

The core issue with the CC model is the removal of choice.

What is so unthinkable about having a paid CS7 and then the updates can be downloaded via a payment every six months or so?

It's the long term users that Adobe have aggrieved.

Col

By the way, why do some of you rant for an age with a long post, you are wasting your time, you are not wasting mine I ignore you?

.

Report · Jan 26, 2014

As I said - Show me a postive CC thread from happy supporters as long as this thread is.

You seem like a bright fellow, so I know you know better than that.

Happy people don't come to forums except to learn or assist. Happy people are busy using the products. It was said somewhere earlier in this thread about how happy people tell a few how happy they are, while unhappy people tell the world.

I can show you more interesting threads that are quite long, but they are not raving about anything in particular. Happy people just don't do that. About anything. Negative energy is always more intense than positive enegy. It is just the way it is.

If you total up the threads that are about how to do something, they far outnumber the posts in this thread.

In any case, I am about done with this particular thread. So I will no longer be receiving notifications. Y'all have fun arguing, I am done. At least for now.

artofzootography.com

Report · Jan 26, 2014

As I said - Show me a postive CC thread from happy supporters as long as this thread is.

You certainly dig deep to make a desparate argument

This thread consists of mostly you and a few others in an echo chamber and could hardly be called a valid poll.

Report · Jan 26, 2014

Wow. Same stuff over and over.

If you like the cloud, and it works for you, you don't need to be on this thread. Your comments are irrelevant.

We, and there are many of us (doesn't matter how much you try to ignore that fact), want Adobe to offer a perpetual license of it's software.

We know that the software is good, and works well, and does everything we want, and blah blah blah... that's not the argument.

We do not want to rent. We want to purchase a perpetual license version of the software.

Report · Jan 27, 2014

Jason

I am an anti CCer

What is really annoying is when users post a message that is longer than WAR & PEACE.

It is irrelevant and no one I their right mind is going to read a rant.

We are not going to change Adobe policy, the best we can do is go off when the time comes and buy Edius, Sound Forge, Avid, etc.