<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am sure you are right about an AIR application <br />being able to use Loader and SWFLoader. I hope I have more or less figured <br />out the right way to do that. But, I guess my point is that none of the <br />documentation I have been able to find anywhere would answer the question about <br />what to do with the framework and/or rpc files. What, as far as you <br />understand it, is the correct way to manage the use of the A</FONT><FONT <br />face=Arial size=2>dobe swz files in an AIR application?</FONT></DIV><br /><BLOCKQUOTE <br />style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><br /> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV><br /> <DIV <br /> style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <br /> <A title=member@adobeforums.com href="mailto:member@adobeforums.com">Josh <br /> McDonald</A> </DIV><br /> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=flexsdk-dev@adobeforums.com <br /> href="mailto:flexsdk-dev@adobeforums.com">flexsdk-dev@adobeforums.com</A> <br /> </DIV><br /> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 03, 2008 11:01 <br /> PM</DIV><br /> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: How to Test AIR 1.5</DIV><br /> <DIV><BR></DIV>A new message was posted by Josh McDonald in <br /> <BR><BR><B>Developers</B> --<BR> How to Test AIR 1.5<BR><BR>I'm <br /> sure there's nothing stopping you from loading SWFs and SWZs and SWCs and <br /> loading them in AIR? Just treat them as normal files, and use whatever you <br /> please to push out updates etc?<BR><BR>-Josh<BR><BR>On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at <br /> 4:53 PM, Terry Corbet <SPAN dir=ltr><<A <br /> href="mailto:member@adobeforums.com">member@adobeforums.com</A>></SPAN> <br /> wrote:<BR><br /> <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote <br /> style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">A <br /> new message was posted by Terry Corbet in<BR><BR>Developers --<BR> How <br /> to Test AIR 1.5<BR><BR>01. Thanks, I will continue testing with ADL <br /> and hopefully be able to move up to a web-base, remote installation/update <br /> scenario in a couple of weeks.<BR><BR>02. I'm sorry you feel that my <br /> failure to accept what may be 'intuitively obvious to you' -- that I can <br /> design and test a 3D front end to FMS that works the same in a native window <br /> as in a browser window -- indicates any lack of faith in what will be <br /> delivered. So far, I have found subtle, important differences, and I <br /> am sure there will be others that will just have to be patiently tested <br /> before I get it right.<BR><BR>03. So, I'm glad you asked about swz in <br /> an AIR environment because that is a whole topic for which I have not been <br /> able to find any discussion on any of the many fine forums you have. I <br /> understand product marketing and product development, but I can't say that I <br /> ever managed those activities in the environment you have in which several <br /> large projects co-exist with lingering dependencies and even 'cultures' as <br /> diverse as you have with the various acquisitions that come together in the <br /> suite of products you have today.<BR><BR>So, I will simply state that I <br /> think no one seems to have recognized that your paradigm for 'desktop' <br /> versus 'web-based' software -- the essential distinction which seems to <br /> describe Adobe's description of an AIR versus a Flex application -- does not <br /> always hold. I understand the general dichotomy, but it does not hold <br /> for my user base.<BR><BR>You have lots of design papers and lots of software <br /> devoted to 'reducing the burden' of ever-growing executables in the Flex <br /> framework by caching of your or our rsls. That's a good idea. <br /> Why do you think it is not just as good an idea for an AIR <br /> application? Probably because you think that an AIR application will <br /> either be shipped on a CD, or sent over the Internet, but relatively <br /> infrequently, so who cares if you have to ship out 10MBs or 2MBs? My user <br /> cares.<BR><BR>My user will get frequent updates to an ever-growing body of <br /> software called an application, and he will get them over those same slow <br /> bandwidth network links that the Flex user sees. What's "good for the <br /> goose is good for the gander". There is simply no reason not to <br /> architect the library of code that we use to cobble together the application <br /> and use the same intelligent caching mechanism in both environments. I <br /> looked for a month for a white paper or discussion of how to 'modularize' an <br /> AIR app but all that you wanted to publish were white papers on how to <br /> 'modularize' a Flex app.<BR><BR>I'm sure that you guys have a bunch of <br /> object diagrams and product architecture blueprints that you have memorized <br /> -- but that is not what we see 'outside the black box'. What we see is <br /> a confusing distinction between the AIR efforts and the Flex efforts <br /> although the code base and efforts are substantially the same. And if <br /> that is true from an internals point of view, put on your end-user hat and <br /> look at how we view a AIR/Flex app -- it is all one.<BR><BR>So, I develop <br /> the worlds greatest Juke Box and get it all going in Flex, then I move that <br /> into one Tab on one Screen in the AIR 'shell'. Then some guys go off <br /> and mostly use AIR-unique code to add a Tab that allows Drag and Drop <br /> creation of Slide Shows accompanied by voice overs, and another set of my <br /> guys go off to add the 'Sudoku' module in just plain old Flex. At some <br /> point in time in some ant task, we've got 10MB of code and X MBs of that is <br /> in one of our present [or future] swz files. Where is the distinction <br /> that says I should just ask my users to download the whole shooting match, <br /> when what he really wants to do is just download whatever updated or new <br /> application modules [including any upgrades to your frameworks] when <br /> required.<BR><BR>So, it took some time, but today, my application is <br /> compiled with dynamic linking to the framework.swz, and when the user <br /> launches his AIR application on the desktop, the Flash Player, embedded in <br /> the AIR environment, is smart enough to find that it already has the <br /> necessary framework code and does not need to go back to the network to get <br /> it refreshed. Actually, since I could never figure out how to use <br /> Module and ModuleManager, the method for solving the framework caching <br /> problem ended up just being an extension of what I developed for version <br /> management 'with continuous update' of my own swf files. So, when the <br /> AIR shell starts up, it needs to test to see whether there is any updating <br /> to be done, or whether it already has locally available the 'latest and <br /> greatest' and that works the same for MyCute3DWizBang.swf or <br /> framework_3.1.0.2710.swz or framework_4.0.0.3988.swf.<BR><BR>If you take the <br /> point of view that a 'desktop application' doesn't need to do anything <br /> special to solve the problem of 'large file downloads', you end up thinking <br /> that there is no reason for an AIR application to take advantage of the <br /> frameworked cache when, in fact, almost all of that code is needed whether <br /> the execution thread starts in a 'WindowApplication' or just a plain old <br /> 'Application'. At least thats the cockamaymee point of view that I <br /> came to in the absence of any 'best practice' discussion of these key topics <br /> -- so far, it seems to be working pretty well, but as you can guess, <br /> testing across a network to a remote host that may or may not have the right <br /> version of AIR, or the right version of framework, or the right version of <br /> MyCute3DWizBang is really more important than just testing against <br /> ADL. <BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Chotin" <<A <br /> href="mailto:member@adobeforums.com" <br /> target=_blank>member@adobeforums.com</A>><BR>To: <<A <br /> href="mailto:flexsdk-dev@adobeforums.com" <br /> target=_blank>flexsdk-dev@adobeforums.com</A>><BR>Sent: Monday, November <br /> 03, 2008 8:39 PM<BR>Subject: Re: How to Test AIR 1.5<BR><BR><BR><br /> <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote <br /> style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">A <br /> new message was posted by Matt Chotin in<BR><BR>Developers --<BR> How <br /> to Test AIR 1.5<BR><BR>The badge install doesn't work with debug, you can <br /> only use adl.exe right now. But this should show how the whole <br /> system would work and really allow you to evaluate. You know how the <br /> AIR install works with Air 1.1 (if not, use Flex 3.1 to target 1.1), I <br /> don't think seeing it with AIR 1.5 is critical to evaluate the features of <br /> the runtime at this point.<BR><BR>Air and the Flash Player are runtimes, <br /> and we've made it clear that AIR 1.5 would include FP10 features. So <br /> when we say Flex will enable FP10, it should be obvious that when AIR 1.5 <br /> comes out Flex will support it in the same way.<BR><BR>I don't really <br /> understand what you're doing with the SWZ and AIR, there's no real need to <br /> use a cached framework when the whole app is going to be <br /> installed.<BR><BR>In any case, Air 1.5 should be out in 2 weeks hopefully <br /> so you'll be set then.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>On 11/3/08 8:07 PM, "Terry <br /> Corbet" <<A href="mailto:member@adobeforums.com" <br /> target=_blank>member@adobeforums.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR>A new message <br /> was posted by Terry Corbet in<BR><BR>Developers --<BR> How to Test <br /> AIR 1.5<BR><BR>Thanks for the quick turnaround. Pardon my ignorance, <br /> but exactly what .exe<BR>file will install Air 1.5 on a system? I <br /> don't find it anywhere. I guess I<BR>can try to tear the ADL source <br /> apart to see how it mimics that behavior, but<BR>that is, at best, just a <br /> local test. I think testing the whole Badge<BR>install sequence is <br /> essential, and would like to give it a try. The longer<BR>we put <br /> this off, the longer we all just sit here trying to decide whether <br /> to<BR>stay with Papervision, Away, Sandy, or to use the graphics support <br /> in the<BR>Player.<BR><BR>I am busy making the dynamic link to the <br /> framework.swz work for Flex modules<BR>running under an AIR shell, and I <br /> doubt that I am alone. There must be many<BR>of us who really see no <br /> distinction between AIR and Flex -- they just<BR>provide us two different <br /> ways to slice a problem, that's why it is so<BR>disconcerting to try to <br /> follow the threads on rapid Flex advancement with FP<BR>10, but almost <br /> nothing pertaining the doing the very same things with the<BR>AIR <br /> toolkit.<BR><BR>I hope you can tell me where to get the standalone AIR 1.5 <br /> installer that<BR>will me keep making progress with the debugging output <br /> reasonably well<BR>handled by Allesandros' FireFox tracer. Many <br /> thanks.<BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Matt Chotin" <br /> <<A href="mailto:member@adobeforums.com" <br /> target=_blank>member@adobeforums.com</A>><BR>To: <<A <br /> href="mailto:flexsdk-dev@adobeforums.com" <br /> target=_blank>flexsdk-dev@adobeforums.com</A>><BR>Sent: Monday, <br /> November 03, 2008 7:55 PM<BR>Subject: Re: How to Test AIR 1.5<BR><BR><BR><br /> <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote <br /> style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">A <br /> new message was posted by Matt Chotin in<BR><BR>Developers <br /> --<BR> How to Test AIR 1.5<BR><BR>Hi,<BR><BR>We're not doing a <br /> public beta of the release runtime for AIR 1.5. You can<BR>use the <br /> debug runtimes that are part of the Flex nightly builds though<BR>(check <br /> the Flex 3 nightlies) to validate that AIR 1.5 will be right for<BR>you <br /> though.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>On 11/3/08 7:38 PM, "Terry Corbet" <<A <br /> href="mailto:member@adobeforums.com" <br /> target=_blank>member@adobeforums.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR>A new <br /> discussion was started by Terry Corbet in<BR><BR>Developers <br /> --<BR> How to Test AIR 1.5<BR><BR>Sorry if this seems slightly off <br /> center, but I blame Adobe, not myself.<BR>Trying to determine the true <br /> status and positioning of AIR amongst the<BR>various Flex forums and <br /> projects for an outsider is practically<BR>impossible. So, I will <br /> be brief. In September Mr. Chambers sent opened<BR>the flow by <br /> telling us that we could find FP10 integrated with Flex SDK <br /> in<BR>something you call 1.5 or Cosmo, or both. He was properly <br /> circumspect, so<BR>I didn't rush into it -- there was not even an ADL <br /> binary when I checked.<BR>Now it is November, the Trunk is at 4005, and <br /> ostensibly, everything we<BR>need to start trying to take advantage of <br /> FP support of 3D operations is<BR>out there. But where? <br /> Where do we get a version of AIR 1.5 that can be<BR>installed on a <br /> target desktop, so that we can try to run the ADT <br /> test<BR>cycle?<BR><BR>Call it Gumbo, call it Flex4, call it whatever, <br /> but can someone tell us<BR>how to start testing it for AIR application <br /> deployment?<BR><BR>Thank <br /> you.<BR><BR>________________________________<BR>View/reply at How to <br /> Test AIR 1.5<BR><<A <br /> href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b6ed86" <br /> target=_blank>http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b6ed86</A>><BR>Replies <br /> by email are OK.<BR>Use the unsubscribe<BR><<A <br /> href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b6ed86%21folder=.3c060fa3" <br /> target=_blank>http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b6ed86!folder=.3c060fa3</A>> <br /> form to<BR>cancel your email <br /> subscription.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------------------------------<BR>View/reply <br /> at <<A href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b6ed86/0" <br /> target=_blank>http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b6ed86/0</A>><BR>Replies <br /> by email are OK.<BR>Use the unsubscribe form at<BR><<A <br /> href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b6ed86%21folder=.3c060fa3" <br /> target=_blank>http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b6ed86!folder=.3c060fa3</A>> <br /> to<BR>cancel your email <br /> subscription.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------------------------------<BR>View/reply <br /> at <<A href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b6ed86/1" <br /> target=_blank>http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b6ed86/1</A>><BR>Replies <br /> by email are OK.<BR>Use the unsubscribe form at <<A <br /> href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b6ed86%21folder=.3c060fa3" <br /> target=_blank>http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b6ed86!folder=.3c060fa3</A>> <br /> to cancel your email <br /> subscription.<BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------------------------------<BR>View/reply <br /> at <<A href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b6ed86/2" <br /> target=_blank>http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b6ed86/2</A>><BR>Replies <br /> by email are OK.<BR>Use the unsubscribe form at <<A <br /> href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b6ed86%21folder=.3c060fa3" <br /> target=_blank>http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b6ed86!folder=.3c060fa3</A>> <br /> to cancel your email subscription. <br /> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------------------------------<BR>View/reply <br /> at <<A href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b6ed86/3" <br /> target=_blank>http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b6ed86/3</A>><BR>Replies <br /> by email are OK.<BR>Use the unsubscribe form at <<A <br /> href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b6ed86%21folder=.3c060fa3" <br /> target=_blank>http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b6ed86!folder=.3c060fa3</A>> <br /> to cancel your email subscription.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <br /> <BR>"Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for <br /> thee."<BR><BR>Like the cut of my jib? Check out my Flex blog!<BR><BR>:: Josh <br /> 'G-Funk' McDonald<BR>:: 0437 221 380 :: <A <br /> href="mailto:josh@gfunk007.com">josh@gfunk007.com</A><BR>:: <A <br /> href="http://flex.joshmcdonald.info/">http://flex.joshmcdonald.info/</A><BR>:: <br /> <A <br /> href="http://twitter.com/sophistifunk">http://twitter.com/sophistifunk</A><BR><BR><BR><br /> <HR align=left width=200><br /> View/reply at <A href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b6ed86/4">How to <br /> Test AIR 1.5</A><BR>Replies by email are OK.<BR>Use the <A <br /> href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b6ed86!folder=.3c060fa3">unsubscribe</A> <br /> form to cancel your email subscription.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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