I don't know if your tweaking of the frame height was changing the top or the bottom, but wouldn't that be functionally the same as leaving the frame height alone (with vertical justification being either Top or Bottom) and putting up with the opposite end not always being aligned? If a page only has 29 lines instead of 30 because of orphan/widow rules, either the top or bottom would not align. Making the frame shorter changes nothing, and making it taller to allow 31 lines instead of 29 still doesn't make it align with 30. I'm very familiar with tweaking word/character spacing to change the number of lines, but as I said, I have no time to be THAT professional, and my husband is also afraid of the ripple effect when things get edited later.   I just had a talk with him about it - it's handy that the author and the designer can just sit down in the same livingroom for a chat at any time. At first he felt like you, that differences in line spacing would be noticeable and distracting. But then he looked at actual books on his bookshelf. None of the books we found used a grid - the line spacing was allowed to vary slightly so that the top and bottom of the pages aligned. And he discovered that the variance didn't bother him like he thought it would. However, all the English books we found were non-fiction, and larger format than the 5"x8" trade paperback size we plan to use for his novels, so conventions might be different. We live in Japan where storage space is limited, so we threw out our collection of paperback novels years ago and just read on Kindle, but tomorrow I'll be passing near a bookstore that is large enough to possibly have a small English fiction section, so I'll stop in and take a look. We're also on the fence about font size and default leading (currently 11pt with 140% leading, but we might increase one or both slightly), so that will be a chance to see what others have done in that regard. Currently I'm favoring Garamond as the font - I like the open feel of its low h-height.   However, all this hand-wringing might not matter much in the end, as he is a self-published new author, so sales are likely to be almost all ebooks, not paperbacks. ... View more

@Peter SpierThanks for the input.   "The only text that needs to align to the grid is the body copy. Headings, titles, etc can be whatever you like." I know, but the sum of the non-grid content and its extra spacing has to be a multiple of the grid size (or ends up that way by force). So differing number of lines in section headers/epigrams and whether a header lands at the top of the page (where the Space Before is nullified) will cause the Space After to vary, sometimes enough to look sloppy. I fight this with the afore-mentioned magazine all the time, although there it's more noticeable due to having several headings on the same spread, which won't happen in the books.   "Quite frankly, it would bother the heck out of me if the two sides of a spread had different line spacing caused by using vertical justification." Hmm, I thought it would be too subtle to notice, since it would be no more than the difference between 29 and 30 lines on the page. Survey question: Would it bother you less if the bottom of the two pages was left ragged? I won't have time to poll a bunch of readers with a bound proof copy (we are currently at risk of running out of time to get a proof copy at all before the release date my husband promised people, unless we just release the ebook and then release the paperback later), so I'll ask you as one voice for starters.   "Seems to me that either tweaking line lengths..." For ~800 pages of book content, this is a non-starter. These books have a lot of dialogue and other shortish paragraphs, so there would be many, many such tweaks. I just don't have that kind of time. And just yesterday I learned that I'll need to revisit the cover design that I thought was done, and that's much more important, as it's the first thing people will see on sales sites and will be on the ebook as well as the paperback.   "...or doing away with Keep Options to prevent single lines at top or bottom of a page..." Echoing your phrase, quite frankly it would bother the heck out of me to have widows, at least at the end of chapters or sections where they would really stand out. Orphans at the bottom of pages might not be so bad (as long as it's not the first line of a section, which is easy to prevent in my case because that's a different paragraph style due to not having a first-line indent) - it's against convention, but not so glaring. Allowing orphans in mid-section paragraphs would reduce the number of short page bottoms, but would not eliminate them. ... View more

Thanks for pitching in, Rob, before I even had a chance to send you guys a test document to play with. This statement worked perfectly. ... View more

Hiding in an old version is not truly "solving the issue", but it's what I need to do for the time being, for the sake of my sanity. Fortunately I've never seen IDML mess up anything - my documents always look the same. Of course if you are using features introduced in 2025 for the first time, that would be a different story. ... View more

Pardon me for resurrecting a four-year-old thread, but... Instead of trying to mess with the leading, why not use the baseline grid and align text to that?   Because that wouldn't solve the problem of having the frame one line too short because of orphan rules. I'm here because of that issue. I'm using baseline grid for a magazine with multi-column articles, but in order to get the bottoms of columns to align, I frequently have to change wrapping on an image, squeeze a paragraph whose last line is short (to reduce it by a line), or stretch a paragraph whose last line is almost full (to make it one line longer). I accept that as necessary for the magazine, but now I'm designing a trilogy of 300-page paperback novels that my husband wrote, and I'm definitely NOT going to manually tweak every page like that. Currently I'm doing it without baseline grid, which allows us to easily tweak the paragraph styles (font size, leading, space above/below) for section headings, chapter titles, epigrams, etc., as we look over the books and see what we think of the appearance. I would hate to be locked into making the resulting height of all those elements always multiples of the grid.   I found this thread because I too would like to use vertical justification in Text Frame Options in a way that it would only stretch things if the frame is almost full. Perhaps irregularity in the bottom of the text on the pages is okay, but it's bothering me. It has been four years, so I don't know if InDesign has new options I'm not aware of. TAW's plugin is pricey and I prefer not to add plugins to software unless I have to, but I might need to consider it. ... View more

Eugene, thanks so much for that script. I tried to modify it to assign a style to the second paragraph when a match is found, but I think I lack knowledge of the object structures or syntax. Here is what I tried to use:   // Check if a document is open if (app.documents.length === 0) { alert("Please open a document before running this script."); } else { var doc = app.activeDocument; // Try to get the "Pink" swatch or create it if it doesn't exist var PinkSwatch; try { PinkSwatch = doc.swatches.itemByName("Pink"); // If it exists, just skip the creation part PinkSwatch.name; // Access to confirm existence (does nothing if it exists) } catch (e) { // If "Pink" swatch doesn't exist, create it PinkSwatch = doc.colors.add({ name: "Pink", model: ColorModel.process, colorValue: [0, 100, 0, 0] // CMYK value for Pink (Magenta) }); // We won't add it to the swatches, just use it directly } // Create a dialog window var dlg = new Window("dialog", "Change Para Style based on Previous"); dlg.orientation = "column"; dlg.alignChildren = ["fill", "top"]; // Add dropdowns for the first and second style selection dlg.add("statictext", undefined, "Select the first paragraph style:"); var firstStyleDropdown = dlg.add("dropdownlist"); dlg.add("statictext", undefined, "Select the following paragraph style:"); var secondStyleDropdown = dlg.add("dropdownlist"); dlg.add("statictext", undefined, "Select the paragraph style you want to change it to:"); var newStyleDropdown = dlg.add("dropdownlist"); // Populate dropdowns with paragraph styles from the active document var paraStyles = doc.allParagraphStyles; for (var i = 0; i < paraStyles.length; i++) { var item1 = firstStyleDropdown.add("item", paraStyles[i].name); var item2 = secondStyleDropdown.add("item", paraStyles[i].name); var item3 = newStyleDropdown.add("item", paraStyles[i].name); } // Optionally, set defaults (for example, if you know the names) firstStyleDropdown.selection = firstStyleDropdown.find("Heading"); secondStyleDropdown.selection = secondStyleDropdown.find("Main text"); newStyleDropdown.selection = newStyleDropdown.find("Main - no indent"); // Add the action buttons var btnGroup = dlg.add("group"); btnGroup.alignment = "center"; var findBtn = btnGroup.add("button", undefined, "Find", {name:"ok"}); var cancelBtn = btnGroup.add("button", undefined, "Cancel", {name:"cancel"}); // Run the dialog if (dlg.show() == 1) { var styleOne = firstStyleDropdown.selection.text; var styleTwo = secondStyleDropdown.selection.text; var styleNew = newStyleDropdown.selection.text; var results = []; // Loop through all stories and their paragraphs for (var s = 0; s < doc.stories.length; s++) { var story = doc.stories[s]; for (var p = 0; p < story.paragraphs.length - 1; p++) { var para1 = story.paragraphs[p]; var para2 = story.paragraphs[p + 1]; // Check if para1 uses the first style and para2 uses the second style if (para1.appliedParagraphStyle.name === styleOne && para2.appliedParagraphStyle.name === styleTwo) { results.push("Story " + (s+1) + ", Paragraphs " + (p+1) + " and " + (p+2)); // For a visual cue, apply the PinkSwatch colour directly //para1.fillColor = PinkSwatch; para2.appliedParagraphStyle.name = styleNew; para2.fillColor = PinkSwatch; } } } // Provide feedback to the user if (results.length > 0) { alert("Found " + results.length + " occurrence(s):\n" + results.join("\n")); } else { alert("No occurrences found where '" + styleOne + "' is immediately followed by '" + styleTwo + "'."); } } }   When I ran it, I got the following error:     So apparently giving the `appliedParagraphStyle.name` property a new value is not how to change the style applied to the paragraph. Do you know how that is supposed to be done? ... View more

@victoriawolf I don't know if you solved this yet for your situation, but I am also using InDesign on Windows 11. (Side note: I'm a very long-time user like you - I started with Aldus Pagemaker 3, before Adobe bought it!) After upgrading to InDesign 2025 in May, I suddenly had a lot of lag doing various things - style changes as well as other actions. I also had similar problems in Photoshop 2025. I ended up re-installing v. 2024 of both apps and retreating. Of course I had to use IDML to convert InDesign documents that had been saved with 2025, but it was worth it - the difference is response time is like night and day. I assume Adobe is aware of it and working on solutions. But if you have discovered a solution in your case, please share. ... View more

Thanks! I have no icon for "Clear Brush Controls" at the bottom of the panel (the only icon there is "Create New Brush"), but your message made me aware that there should be such a command somewhere, so I hunted around and found it on the flyout menu for the panel. That was partially successful, but some settings were still stubborn - I had to select that menu item over and over when changing brushes. Then I noticed another menu item on the flyout menu: "Reset All Locked Settings". I had clicked the little lock button on a few of the settings along the way, even though I don't really know what that lock is supposed to do (I thought it might prevent local changes, but it doesn't). Anyway, unlocking everything seems to result in even better behavior, so perhaps that was the key.   Aside: You mentioned "Include Tool Settings", but most of the time I don't want todo that with my custom brushes - sometimes I want to be able to use the same brush to paint and erase, and that's impossible if I include the tool settings. I also wouldn't want the colors saved, although that doesn't appear to be happening with any brushes anyway - all the after-market brushes I have installed have the tool icon and won't let me use them with any other tool, so I think they were all saves with "Include Tool Settings", but none of them force particular colors. And blending mode is a function of the layer, not the brush, right? I don't see how a brush preset could dictate that. ... View more

Thanks so much for the research. You are correct - when I created a new paragraph style for the drop cap (still basing it on my Article Text style, which I knew didn't have a problem), it exported successfully from ID 2025. I do hope that soon the sluggishness issue in ID 2025 (and PS 2025) will be solved, as of course I noticed it again doing this test. But it's good to know that this particular problem was just a glitch and easily solvable. I know there are a lot of people on these forums whining that Adobe no longer cares about their users, but I hope they see this thread, because you guys definitely earned your pay. You didn't use the sledgehammer approach, telling me to reconstruct everything or reinstall the software without my settings or some other drastic thing - you used a scalpel to hone in on the particular style that needed replacing. Kudos! ... View more

In the paragraph style "Feature 1st para w/ drop cap", could you let us know if you've applied any special styling, so that CSS is not generated for this paragraph style.   The only "special styling" is merely what the style name indicates: a drop cap (for use as the first paragraph in "feature" articles). Here are two screenshots of the relevant parts of the style definition (General and Export Tagging): I don't want any dropcaps or similar fancy stuff in the online version of articles, so I'm glad that (in ID 2024) the only thing added to the HTML for the dropcap is a <span> tag with no styling. I don't use the HTML file directly as a static webpage - I copy/paste each article's title, content, byline, bio, etc. into the appropriate places in Wordpress. And I always tell the export dialog to not include CSS classes.   Additionally, could you try creating a new paragraph style with the same style ("Feature 1st para w/ drop cap") without duplicating the existing one, and let us know if the issue persists?   Yes, the issue persists - here is a screenshot of what I did and the crash notification: So apparently there is something about dropcaps that ID 2025 doesn't like. I know that the new HTML5 export type is very fancy, trying to recreate the layout, but I assumed the HTML(Legacy) type was the old code untouched. Apparently that's not the case. Thanks for researching this - I look forward to hearing about any progress.   For now I'll go back to using ID 2024 - I only need to export HTML for one quarterly magazine, but the bigger reason is that ID 2025 is weirdly and painfully slow - every action (even as simple as changing the current tool or clicking on a different pane) takes several seconds. The same problem exists in Photoshop 2025 (and perhaps other apps - I haven't tried them yet). But I assume that problem has already been reported to the developers - many users are screaming about it on this forum and elsewhere.   For opening ID 2025 files given to me, I tried the "Convert File" option offered in ID 2024, but on some of the files I tried, it doesn't work; after clicking the Convert File button, it grays out as if it's doing something, but nothing ever happens - it just stays like the screenshot below until I click Cancel, and the file is never opened. So I will still need to use ID 2025 to save some files as IDML. This is not a concern long term, as I normally use the newest versions of Adobe apps, but for now it's a small annoyance.   ... View more

A round-trip through IDML was one of the first things I tried, thinking that my document had been corrupted somehow (I mentioned this in the first post, but apparently you missed it). Did you try the file I attached? I'm interested to hear if it works for you or not. That file is after not only saving as IDML and reopening to save as a new INDD file, but also creating a fresh document and copying a few pages of text frames from my document into it. It crashes my copy of ID 2025 - how about yours? ... View more

If many users are reporting such problems, why did I not find anything in UserVoice or even just googling keywords? I'd like to know that the developers know about it and have it on their to-do list to fix. ... View more

Fonts shouldn't have anything to do with this HTML export - I ask for no CSS classes, and there are no style definitions. ... View more

I have no such section in Preferences - there is nothing in the list between Forms and Identity. And that's the case for the OP also - he shared a screenshot of his Preferences earlier in this thread. What version of Acrobat do you have? I am currently on 2025.001.20531. ... View more

Yours is not quite the same issue, since you say you disabled the Generative AI feature. The OP and I can't find that setting - can you share a screenshot of where you found that setting? Maybe it won't help me either, but I'd like to try. ... View more

Your reply sounds like boilerplate or an AI response based only on keywords. I have the AI assistant feature - the problem is that I don't want it and can't turn it off. ... View more

In Keyboard Shortcuts I did find "Redraw" with a keyboard shortcut of Shift-F5. But when I pressed it, nothing visibly happened (not even a flicker of the page or text frame, which I would have expected). I tried it with nothing selected, with the text frame selected (with the object selection tool), and with the text selected.   As for the missing fonts, that's almost certainly from all the paragraph styles I didn't think to remove when I made the MWE. The only font actually used is Adobe Garamond Pro, which I assume you have. Attached is your document after I removed all the parent pages and styles that are not relevant. If it still complaints of missing fonts, something is going on behind the scenes that I can't see.   We're almost ready to publish (should be done by the end of this week), and if necessary I can tweak the anchor points to get it to move slightly downward (though it never completely touches the line), so for this specific instance it's mostly just a curiosity at this point. But of course I (or someone else reading this later) might run into the same issue, so if it's a bug, it should be diagnosed. And as I said earlier, I'm also curious whether this is related to the frames set to Justify that won't touch the bottom in the newsletters I do (I don't currently have an example of that, as I don't remember which previous newsletters had that problem). ... View more

I simply downloaded and opened your file (no changes - I didn't touch it), and this is what it looks like on my computer. I guess it likes you better! 🤔     ... View more

Ah, I turned text wrap off and then on again, and I could then see the line. But adding anchor points to that didn't fix the problem either.     ... View more

I tried adding anchor points (with no effect - see below), but just now I realized that you were adding them to the wrap boundary, not the object shape. But I don't see how to do that - how do you get the wrap boundary line to display for an ellipse? I only see those lines when the shape is a rectagle, as far as I can figure out.   ... View more

I have the exact same problem as the OP, and I just checked - I'm on 25.001.20474 on Windows 11 and there are no newer updates available in the CC app. Here is a screenshot of my Preferences. Lacking a Generative AI tab, I looked around in other tabs like General, Page Display, Accessibility, and a few others, but I don't see anything about AI. ... View more

I wonder if this bug (if it's indeed a bug) is related to another quirk I've fought in a different periodical I lay out (a newsletter for a different organization). In that case I don't use a grid, so I set the text columns to Align=Justify to keep things tidy, but occasionally one of the columns will mysteriously refuse to align at the bottom. I do place photos with text wrap in various places on the newsletter pages, so I'm now thinking that it might be related to this current problem somehow. ... View more

I thought maybe it would align if the words were shorter (therefore easier for InDesign to wrap at will), but the behavior is the same - if the text is less than four lines it seems to work, but once it becomes long enough to need a fourth line, it starts getting wacky (although the amount of unwanted space at the bottom isn't consistent - if the real bio text were as close as this example, I would have declared it good enough, as our readers don't put rulers on the pages to check my design details).   ... View more

I don't know how to share privately, but I'm not worried about it - see attached. I did need to remove the article text, because it was the last page of an article and trying to break the thread between frames didn't work right. But the problem is not dependent on the article text as long as you remember that the column on the left side of the image stops at the gridline where the bottom of the bio frame is currently, so I'm trying to align with that.   I'm aware that I might have to change the text wrapping shape of the image to get InDesign to do what I want (as Laubender suggested). I'm not sure yet how to do that with an ellipse, since the wrap path doesn't start out with handles, but I can figure that out (if necessary, turn off wrapping on the real image and add multiple invisible shapes with their own wrap - I've done that many times working with complex shapes). It's already clear from all the responses that there isn't a setting somewhere to prioritize layout over text wrap asthetics, which is what I was initially wondering - if there was such a setting, one of you wonderful people would have already mentioned it. ... View more

Yes, if I move it to the pasteboard or anywhere else where there is no image with text wrap, it aligns to bottom as it should. That's why I said it seems to be InDesign prioritizing appearance of the text line lengths (which would change if moved up or down along the steeply angled edge of the image) over accuracy of following my "rules", and I was wondering if there is a way to force it to more strictly obey the alignment setting. ... View more