P: LR4 doesn't display point curve adjustments made in LR3

Tom/Jeffrey: With the update what will be the correct path to update catalogs? Can one just delete the LR4 catalog, upgrade to 4.1 (or whatever the version will be), and then reconvert an LR3.6 catalog? Will there be a prompt when opening LR4 with no catalog to update an existing LR3 catalog? A lot of us have gone back to using LR3.6 until the issues with LR4 are resolved.

See Tom's announcement of a release later this week to address this:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...

Yes, they should fix it PDQ, but that raises the question of exactly how fast PDQ really is... Is it two weeks ago? Is it yesterday? Is it tomorrow? Is it in two weeks? A month? The honest truth is that nobody here has any actual knowledge of what Adobe is working on and we have no real, concrete basis for determining EXACTLY how fast Adobe "ought to" have LR4.1 out. We are all just speculating because we are annoyed with this problem... and rightly so. But we are still just speculating.

The primary point of my post above was not really that Adobe ought to be simply excused. I entirely agree that the tone curve issue was a bungle-and-a-half. And it's definitely annoying.

My point, however, was that the tone curve issue is not the ONLY issue that Adobe is working on. There are plenty of other problem areas that I'm sure the Adobe team is trying to address... and it would stand to reason that LR4.1 won't be released until a number of bug fixes have been integrated.

Why is the release of LR4.1 taking so long? Well, that's a reasonable question. Consider this, though. With the bugs that have been found in LR4, people have ranted on and on (not just here, but mostly elsewhere) about how Adobe ought to be ashamed of itself for releasing its software too early. For shame, Adobe!

Yet here we are holding our breath, going," Ready yet? Ready yet? Ready yet? No???? Not yet? Well.... ready now? Now? Now?" We are just jumping out of our chairs to get them to push an update out the door as fast as humanly possible... the very thing that they've been criticized for with the release of LR4 to begin with. We criticize them for supposedly releasing LR4 too early... we criticize them for supposedly releasing LR4.1 too late. Translation: "Whatever Adobe does... they are wrong." I mean, really... that's what this boils down to. And if people feel that way, well... okay.

I'm simply saying that...yes, we have a right to be aggravated with the tone curve issue... but we still need to be reasonable about these things getting fixed. The developers at Adobe don't just grow bug patches on magical trees out back of Adobe HQ. They are working on it... and I hardly think that they are intentionally dragging their feet and PURPOSELY delaying LR4.1 (that wouldn't even make sense).

Is it not reasonable to think that they are ensuring that all the various bug fixes in the future LR4.1 are rigorously examined and work well so that LR4.2 won't need to be released only a month afterward?

"Software releases have bugs. It'll get fixed eventually" would be OK if this were free software (Linux, GIMP, etc) being developed and maintained by the community. But Adobe is a multi-million dollar multi-national business that makes very healthy profits selling software, and if a product is not fit for purpose when it's sold, the company needs to fix it PDQ.

Sure, I understand your point of view. It could be worked a little faster, you're right. But it's ok. Not the best, not the worst, but ok. The point is that a lot of people around here have unrealistic views about what is possible. And I disagree that the release was too early. It was an error, it happens.

Based on my software dev experience in large organisations, I expect that the final fix is being rolled into v4.1 along with a bunch of other things (e.g. edit in external application, which doesn't work at all in some cases I understand, maybe an even bigger goof!). And for a consumer product that's probably better than lots of little fixes. But that's my educated guess based on experience, I might be completely wrong and not everyone will come to the same conclusion about what "might" be happening behind the scenes. So I agree that some clearer communication would help, like "we expect an update within x weeks and either run the script or (sorry) wait". Tom's idea of posting on the tech support blog was an excellent one - I don't think this has happened yet.

I think this is the wrong approach:

"Hey, this is a software company.

They have sometimes reported in a forum. So please wait patiently. This is more and faster than one can expect from other software companies. "

What?

I like the Adobe products. The ideas behind it are really impressive.

But with the money and the know-how we can expect an interim release within two weeks. The script works, Adobe knows the problem.

Even a bug fix for just one mistake would be a good thing.

For example, because of this error, many still do not work with LR4.

The company I work for builds industrial control systems. We deliver sometimes with our own software. If we make a mistake, we must correct this error usually within three days.

If I buy a TV on the Internet and it is defective then I expect a replacement within two weeks.

I refuse to excuse everything with "it is a software company" and "it is complex". Sure it is.

But a workaround is not a solution. And this workaround is also quite questionable, because it is not always applicable. A script is no solution, too. It's a thing at your own risk and to help Adobe find a solution.

For a normal user, not a technology geek, it is not practical for the normal user who is not experienced with software issues and does not want to lose data. This user will only be scared.

I want to emphasize once again. I like Adobe, I like Adobe products.

But it could be worked a little faster. And for example, the manpower of Photoshop used for Lightroom, instead of publishing the beta and to pretend as if the situation is not so bad. The release was just too early.

I do now want the take the parts of Abobe in this thread or others (I'm a simple customer) but Failure to warn users of of damage to catalogues when upgrading to V.4" is a bit an overstatement in my opinion.
The original v3 catalogue is still intact after the upgrade to LR4 so....nothing is really lost.
Regards,
no-nic - Marco,

I agree entirely with Justin and John's comments above. Software development is complex. As far as I can tell, people at Adobe are not lazy or stupid. Sure, there was a goof, it happens, but by and large the communication has been swift and open, and Adobe provided an effective temporary resolution until v4.1. And let's not forget, the workaround script was provided by an actual real person with an actual name who actually took the time to engage with the community. Yes, communication could be improved, some advance warning of the issue would be good, but comms have been pretty good.

There are 3 points on which it is worth reflecting:
1. Many companies, as previously noted, do not have the desire or, frankly, the capability to issue temporary fixes like this. Even if an employee wanted to, in many companies the internal processes simply do not allow for ad hoc posting of scripts and hotfixes like this, I mean, it's quite a brave move right? What if it went wrong? Imagine the consequences. We should all thank our lucky stars that Adobe doesn't have 15 approval stages to put everything into a packaged release schedule, and that there is a willing community to test an alpha script to a reasonable level of robustness.

2. If we continually kick someone for trying to do a good job, what happens? Yep, they may well think "I can get this kind of abuse for a lot less work, so screw you". So constructive criticism is good, thanks for the work so far is good. Bashing people for trying to resolve things and throwing tantrums because everything should be perfect does not paint anyone in a flattering light.

3. As has been noted, compared to many other companies, this level of service is very good. Adobe in general are pretty good to deal with in my experience compared to many others. Companies that offer such service to consumers, especially those paying less than $200 for a product, are notable by their rarity. Most hide their telephone numbers in secret corners of their website, then hide their people behind mobius loops of "press 1 for this and 2 for that" menus. Adobe don't. Yes, Adobe is a big company and "should" be perfect. Well, the world isn't. Get over it. If you think this is bad, you are in for a lifetime of disappointment and pain. And for anyone thinking "if we don't complain it doesn't get better", I agree with you, but read point number 2 again.

Now, I've held off so far on upgrading. I've left that to some pathfinders who are braver and more knowledgable than me. Fair enough, my choice. I'm fine to do it now though so from my personal point of view:

A great big THANKS to Tom and the other helpful people on this forum. Good job, keep it up, onwards and upwards!

Scott

Having been in the position of dealing with enterprise software I have to say that Adobe's relatively public handling of this issue by having a company representative answer questions, work with the community on solution, and providing multiple alpha workarounds for testing is nothing short of phenomenal.

Bugs in software happen, and if you're affected by the bug, it can be frustrating.

The usual corporate response in this scenario (as was mentioned before by another commenter) is stonewalling, denial, silence, and eventually, maybe, a patch. In the meantime, huge frustration.

So hats off to Adobe for providing atypical, excellent customer service way beyond the norm in the industry for a consumer product, especially to customers who aren't paying megabucks for a service contract.

Since nothing is lost from the original catalog you can always go back to LR3 if you need a pristine copy of an image from your back catalog, and for affected images re-import them into LR4 when a fix is available.

Readers of this thread might be interested in a the following thread dealing directly with Adobe's poor handling of the issue titled:

"Failure to warn users of of damage to catalogues when upgrading to V.4"

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...

(any problems wit the link, please let me know)