P: a simple way to email, and drag and drop modified versions

Somehow the boneheads that write the cheap, cheesy consumer grade photo management/adjustment software find this very easy to do. I have a hard time understanding why Adobe's team of top notch programmers don't. I'm not being sarcastic. Adobe's programs are top shelf, not cheap but worth every penny and then some. I wouldn't consider using anything other than Lightroom and I'd own other Adobe apps if I could afford them.

Anyway, I think this dead horse has been beat to death. I can agree to disagree on this.

"Why not add an easier way too if it doesn't break anything? "

Every added feature means a different feature isn't added, because the team is time and resource limited. All I'm saying is that something that can be done effortlessly already is far lower on the priority list for me than a lot of other things that are either very difficult or impossible to do right now.

In regards to drag-and-drop being easy and so why not do it for e-mailing:

In general the e-mail client expects the list of filenames that are drug over to already exist and immediately be available for reading via the operating system when you release the mouse. The modified files would not exist, yet, at the time of the drag-and-drop, so how would LR give the e-mail client the modified versions, easily?

I include the word “easily” because I can think of a way to do it, but it is not trivial:

When you install LR, it also installs a system device that could be referenced as \\Lighroom\Export (this is server-share notation and I’m not sure that device-notation is the same but it should be understandable what I’m talking about) and if you know what to pass to it, in terms of a file-path, this device would serve up the modified version of file specified in the path. The way it would work is that when you did Option/Alt-Drag-and-Drop, the list of filepaths LR gives the e-mail client would be relative to that system device, and would include a unique LR identifier that specified which image and which virtual copy of it to render and return as a file-like byte-stream.

For example, when you just drag-and-drop you get the originals so the e-mail client would see something like:
C:\MyPictures\Image1.CR2
C:\MyPictures\Image2.CR2
etc

But if you did an Option/Alt-drag-and-drop the list of paths LR could drop onto the e-mail client would be:
\\Lightroom\Export\8C614B8C-8278-489E-9DAC-9D10F3E3958B\Image1.jpg
\\Lightroom\Export\6790753E-0B51-48A8-AF85-BAB82BD8C994\Image2.jpg
etc

The coding necessary to make LR be a pull-from server instead of just a push-to client is not a small undertaking, although it would be awesome.

If I were doing it, I might change the gibberish to include an Export-preset name, the physical file path, and an optional virtual-copy-number, so I could read from the LR device with other sorts of programs not related to drag-and-drop and allow it to drive my webserver photo-gallery without having to have copies of JPGs laying around.

I am not suggesting that Adobe would ever do this, or at least not before they developed a multi-user client-server version of Lightroom that would lend itself to such an extension, but it is to illustrate that what seems so simple based on our experience with a computer, is not necessarily simple behind the scenes, and Adobe’s adding a function to LR is not based on how trivial the users see it, but on how hard it actually it to implement vs the revenue generated from such an addition.

The current solutions are to use an Export plugin to send e-mails, or to just export to a folder, and drag-and-drop from that folder to the e-mail client.

What I still don't understand is the way you want to do it already exists. I'm not saying take that away. What's the problem? Why won't you consider allowing another way?

I get the feeling you think people should do it the "right" way and if they're not up to it then they shouldn't be using Lightroom. And guess what, that's the current reality. I'm sure there's people who don't use Lightroom because there's no "email" button or simple way to drag and drop the modified version to another app. So you're probably selling less copies than you could. I'm not sure I understand your business model.

I'd be willing to bet that if you took a group of consumer and basic prosumer types and gave them a free copy of Lightroom and let them import and tweak their photos they'd find it easy and intuitive and usable, and then when you show them what they have to do to get their photos into their emails and web sites you'd see an obvious disappointment.

Please understand, I get what you're saying. I'm a programmer and a hard core computer user, network designer and administrator. I do what you say and I like the control Lightroom gives me over export size, sharpening, file naming etc. I get it, I get it. I like it. Why not add an easier way too if it doesn't break anything?

uh, yeah, that's kinda why I said that maybe the features I'm suggesting aren't for the pros. What the pros want is already there.

But they could very simply add a few features and make the program more attractive to the consumer and semi-pro users. There are a lot of people who are avid digital photo enthusiasts for whom exporting files and then attaching them to emails is too much work or too difficult to comprehend. If they could be accommodated easily why not do it?
If pros don't want to send their photos by email they don't have to. I'm not saying force this on people or take away existing features. I'm saying add two which I think many people would like. Is there a downside to that?

Sure, you can target only the pro user if you want. Question: Are more professional grade or more consumer and prosumer grade cameras sold each year? Which market is bigger? If you can have both why wouldn't you?

Lightroom is a beautiful program, I wouldn't use anything else. I had Aperture only so I could give my mom tech support with it since she outgrew iPhoto when she got her D7000, but I hated Aperture and as soon as I found the plug-in for emailing pics directly from Lightroom I switched her to it as well. Lightroom iss easy to use and intuitive. Everything it has is already easy enough to use for the consumer/prosumer type user, but what those folks want to do is email their pics and put them on their websites without hassle. If that could be done easily, why not do it? If a feature can be added without breaking another what's the downside? I'm not saying dumb down Lightroom, I'm saying make it easier for casual users to get their pictures out of Lightroom and where they want them and I think you'll target a bigger audience.

If the attitude on this forum is don't come here with your complaints/suggestions because we already have "about a thousand other feature requests" then why not put that in the terms of use or a sticky so people know not to bother posting.

"Q: What size?
A: My mail app (Apple Mail) lets me choose that. I can choose small, medium, large or original.

That's a lousy way to do it. Does your mail application apply proper sharpening after using proper size reduction methods like Lightroom does? The difference are far from subtle.

Q: What sharpening?
A: How about the sharpening already applied to the one that's being dragged and dropped?

Because I'm talking about export sharpening, which should be done by Lightroom, not the email application, because it's done *after* resizing.

Q: What file name?
A: How about the file name of the version you're dragging and dropping?

Because that's usually some meaningless name with an index number of some sort in it. It means nothing to those receiving the email. Which does Grandma want, "IMG_3456.jpg" or "Billy at age 1.jpg"?

"To do that presently you have to choose those settings, export, then find those files on the hard drive either through the finder or the web design app."

That's what the desktop is for - temporary working space, just like a real top-of-the-desk. I have my presets set up for that. Things just appear before my eye on the desktop, I drag them from there to where I want them, and then delete. Simple, takes a second.

"about a thousand other feature requests"? Honestly? "

Probably more, actually.

I'm in agreement with this. There is already a send by Email set of Presets for Mac Mail and they have no user settings for sharpening, file name, etc. Would it not be too hard to invoke theses options for drag and drop as well.

Q: Which modified version?
A: How about the one you're dragging and dropping.

Q: What size?
A: My mail app (Apple Mail) lets me choose that. I can choose small, medium, large or original.

Q: What sharpening?
A: How about the sharpening already applied to the one that's being dragged and dropped?

Q: What file name?
A: How about the file name of the version you're dragging and dropping?

I'm really not trying to be argumentative. I'd say let's not make this more complicated that it is. Want more control than what I answered here above, how about having presets for dragging and dropping just as there are for printing and for exporting.

But even if there were no presets and all you got when you dragged and dropped a file is the modified file as is (existing file name, existing size, existing sharpening) it still would be a big help. And if one could choose whether they got the original or the modified version by something like holding down the option key you could add a feature obviously some people would like without breaking the existing feature, and you could do it with very little code. I just don't see the down side.

Let's say you're working on your web site and you want pics limited to 800px on the longest dimension with medium sharpening, you could click on that preset and just drag and drop pics to your web design app. To do that presently you have to choose those settings, export, then find those files on the hard drive either through the finder or the web design app. You can do it, but it's more work. And as far as I know there's no existing tool that lets you drag and drop the modified version. Is there one?

I'm not sure if anyone commenting here is from Adobe or just other users like myself, but I use a lot of software, I've done a lot of beta testing, and the usual response to suggestions from companies I deal with is one of appreciation.

"about a thousand other feature requests"? Honestly?

Well said, Lee.

I'd add that sending images via email is not a good idea, in particular not for pros. Either the images are too small to have impact or they clog up the recipient's Inbox and/or are too big for convenient viewing.

I would expect pros to simply send a link pointing to a gallery generated by LR. This way emails stay small and the pro has full control over the presentation of the images, can use reasonable sizes, etc.

There are always people who have problems! I'm not sure where it exports files (I planned to dig around temp folders) but I've used this happily for a while on a number of machines.

I agree emailing should be built in, as it is in many other cross-platform programs. It could go through Export, though I think it would be easier to use if cloaked behind a File > Email command.

For the reasons Lee Jay specified, I don't think drag and drop works for this.