P: Ability to sync Lightroom Classic keywords with the Lightroom Ecosystem

Hi

I can't understand that keyword sync between L. Classic and Creative Cloud is not possible. I understand the hyerarchical keywords issue, but not allowing sync at all IS NOT A SOLUTION: it's a sentence for those, like me, that have large image libraries keyworded in LC. If this doesn't change, I won't NEVER consider switching to Creative Cloud. Never. I would rather switch to Creative One (I've succeded to export my 150 thousand images library seamlessly) or any other alternative digital asset management software.

Really, this is infuriating and beyond my understanding.

I posted this before, but with over 200 posts in this thread it is hard to find, so here it is again.  the crux of the post is a way for Adobe to do this without putting hierarchical KW's in LR/Cloud.  At this time, I am considering the official "reason" for not fixing this as pure BS.  This is no where as complicated as AI in masking or super noise reduction and they were able to do that.  

Adobe says that "a hierarchical schema is not compatible for various workflows".  I don't buy it, and won't buy it unless someone from Adobe articulates exactly what those incompatibilities are and why various suggested solutions (like mine) won't work.  

Here's the idea....

Cloud / Classic keyword Sync

Requested 2017

Fully Sync keywords between Classic and Cloudy.  Add “sync” options to add/edit keyword screens

While keeping the constraint that LR Classic uses hierarchical KW's and LR Cloudy uses a linear (flat) KW structure, this problem can be solved.  There are, of course, some technical aspects but the main rationale I've heard so far for not doing this is the logical problem of how to map a hierarchical structure to a linear structure.  One solution is to convert LR Cloudy to a hierarchical structure but putting that aside, here is one possible solution to that problem:

1. In LR Classic, add 3 new check boxes in the create/edit keyword dialog for, "Sync this KW with LR Cloud", "Sync Containing KW's with LR Cloud", and "Sync Synonyms with LR Cloud (synonyms would become regular KW's in LR Cloud)
   
   
2. When a user ticks any of these new boxes, LR Classic would check to assure that it is not redundant.  For example, if you already ticked KW "Red" under "Flowers", and now you are trying to tick keyword "Red" under "Cars": it would reject the request as a duplicate.  By doing this, it will enforce a one to one correspondence between ticked KW's in LR Classic and KW's in LR Cloud - thus negating Adobe's excuse for not syncing KW's
   
   
3. If a user defined KW is added to an image in LR Cloudy it could map to either no existing KW's in LR Classic or at the most to one "ticked" KW in LR Classic.  In the former case, LR Classic would create the new KW at the root level of the Hierarchy with "Sync this KW with LR Cloudy" ticked.  If there already was one, it would just add check the tick box.  In the later case there could be only 1 ticked LR Classic Keyword with that name that would be affected.
   
   
4. If you add KW in Classic or tick one of these new boxes on an exisitng KW, after assuring that word is not similarly ticked in any other KW,  the KW would be sent and added to LR/Cloud.
     

THIS CAN BE DONE if there is a will to do so at Adobe and the more people who speak up for having KW's sync between the ecosystems, the more it will push Adobe to re-consider this.   

Thank you for that explanation. They give BS answers to perfectly reasonable requests about this. Why? Do they think professionals should use something else? 

This is why I'm writing about this. I made a gallery of my great uncle's photography, made in 1935-1949. I invited my extended family to look and comment, looking forward to working with their choices and printing some artwork and portraits for them. And they did. But getting those comments back out of Lightroom didn't work, despite the fact that the edits made in Lightroom did come back to Lightroom Classic. It said it was able to sync. Pixels but not metadata? How is that reasonable? 

You don't have to flatten anything. Adobe is telling a lie when they say this. Hierarchical keywords use a delimiter, often a pipe symbol but it can be another character, and the reading/writing app decides how to interpret that delimiter. Keywords can be mixed, some with the delimiter and some without. If you want flat keywords, simply ignore the pipe. Don't read it or optionally don't write it.

Bird|Raptor|Hawk|Red-tailed Hawk. If my app simply replaces the pipe with a comma, now I have flat keywords. I don't even have to change them in the file, simply read them out flat.

Remember this is all plain text, mainly using two namespaces with a bag data structure, so its incredibly easy to read and write. EVERY app and image library out there knows how to handle dc:subject; lr:hierarchicalSubject can simply mirror dc:subject.

Your guess is as good as mine if hierarchy keywording now is really holding Adobe back or Adobe decided not to advance further in tightening the integration of the Lightroom ecosystem.

This impasse could be broken by adding a switch for users who no longer uses hierarchy keywords ie all flatten to allow a reverse sync from the cloud to LrC. This will satisfy users on both camps ie flat keyworders and hierarchy keyworders (pun intended). 

Adobe promoted syncing to the cloud heavily and for other metadata the sync is both ways. 

Keywords are excatly what they do .. they open doors to documents/photos you are looking for.  With the right set you find needles from the haystack. 

"Nobody in the professional space would think that Sensei image search could come even close to replacing keywords."

Fully agree. At the time LR Cloud was launched, I think it's clear that the product managers were targeting casual users, not professionals or prosumers.

As for keywords, the cloud software could simply write hierarchical keywords to dc:subject and lr:hierarchicalSubject. Its plain text and Adobe has metadata-handling libraries. I don't use the cloud software because of this and other arbitrary limitations. These are NOT technical issues, but deliberate design choices.

Nobody in the professional space would think that Sensei image search could come even close to replacing keywords. I'm a working pro for an automotive supplier. Tell me how image search can tell if a part is made in Japan or Mexico, or whether its OEM or Sport market. :sigh:

I struggle to understand why there isn't just ONE Lightroom, that could store photos locally or in the cloud, with the best capabilities of both apps. The segmentation is idiotic IMHO.

@CS Chua, "I don't hate hierarchy data structures. However if that's what is really holding back Lightroom advancing and enabling a reverse keyword sync back to LrC..."

I don't think that's the primary impediment. Back when the LR ecosystem was announced (LR Classic 7), Adobe announced that going forward, they would focus their efforts for LR Classic on Develop and image quality, and in particular would make no more changes to the sync between the LR cloud and LR Classic. That was unusual for Adobe, since they rarely disclose future plans. Since then, they've stayed true to the word, with only very modest importments to things not related to image quality and no significant changes to cloud sync.

There was also a report from the annual Adobe conference that the LR ecosystem product manager stated publicly that he hated keywords (not hierarchical keywords, keywords in general), and in his view Sensei image search was intended to partially replace the need for keywords in the LR cloud.  However, I never found a video of those remarks, and I can't find the post from the attendee relaying them. (The post is probably lost, since Adobe deleted the old feedback forum.)

I don't hate hierarchy data structures. However if that's what is really holding back Lightroom advancing and enabling a reverse keyword sync back to LrC and if what I propose is workable, implementable at scale then there's a path forward.

The ability to edit/modify, add & delete keywords on a tablet n a close loop keyword sync has huge upside potential particularly to pro-photographers. 

It will enable the all the existing Lightroom apps to be a close loop ecosystem.