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leighm26990353
Participant
August 29, 2013
Released

P: Custom sort order of keywords (instead of alphabetic).

  • August 29, 2013
  • 123 replies
  • 7307 views

Lightroom needs to stop re-ordering our keywords into an alphabetical order. People who are keywording for stock agencies and other purposes need to order their keywords most important and relevant first. Lightroom ruins this for us. I can't believe it's version 5 and Lightroom hasn't figured this out. Lightroom is single-handedly ruining our sales based on keyword searches. Thanks Adobe

    123 replies

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    Rikk Flohr_Photography
    Community Manager
    Rikk Flohr_PhotographyCommunity Manager
    Community Manager
    October 26, 2021

    Greetings,

     

    The Max 2021 Photography products updates have been released and include remedies for this topic.  The updates will be rolling out worldwide, October 26 and 27, 2021. If you do not see the updates in your Creative Cloud Desktop app, you can refresh the apps to see if the updates are available in your region.  The keyboard shortcut to refresh is [Cmd/Ctrl] + [Opt/Alt] + [ R ]. 

     

    Note: iOS and Android updates may take up to a week to appear in your App Store.

     

    Thank you for your patience.

    Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org
    J
    Juha5EA3
    Known Participant
    October 23, 2024

    Lrc 14.0.1 modifies xmp-sidecar keyword order if they are set in Bridge. 

     

    Bridge xmp-file:

    <dc:subject>
    <rdf:Bag>
    <rdf:li>wood</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>board</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>wooden</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>painted</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>stripes</rdf:li>
    </rdf:Bag>
    </dc:subject>

    LrC modifies the XMP-sidecar file 
    <dc:subject>
    <rdf:Bag>
    <rdf:li>board</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>painted</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>stripes</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>wood</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>wooden</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>~ATTRIBUTE</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>~Material</rdf:li>
    </rdf:Bag>
    </dc:subject>
    <lr:weightedFlatSubject>
    <rdf:Bag>
    <rdf:li>painted</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>board</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>stripes</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>wooden</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>wood</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>~Material</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>~ATTRIBUTE</rdf:li>
    </rdf:Bag>
    </lr:weightedFlatSubject>
    <lr:hierarchicalSubject>
    <rdf:Bag>
    <rdf:li>board</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>painted</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>stripes</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>wooden</rdf:li>
    <rdf:li>~ATTRIBUTE|~Material|wood</rdf:li>
    </rdf:Bag>
    </lr:hierarchicalSubject>

     

    john beardsworth
    Community Expert
    john beardsworthCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    October 23, 2024

    That is expected behaviour and has always been the same. Bridge happens to save keywords in a manual order, LR stores them alphabetically, and there is no IPTC standard which says which is the right approach.

    L
    Lumigraphics
    Legend
    August 13, 2021

    Yeah, Bridge shows keywords differently in different places. I never use File Info, only the Keywords panel. A metadata preset writes them alphabetically. Note that Keywords panel and File Info handle lr:hierarchicalKeywords differently depending on preference settings for keywords, too.

    johnrellis
    johnrellis
    Legend
    August 13, 2021

    The Keywords panel always displays the keywords alphabetically. When I add keywords using the Keywords panel, they appear at the end of the manually ordered keywords in the File Info > Keywords field. When I delete keywords using the Keywords panel, the manual order in File Info > Keywords is preserved.

    Continuing the previous example, here's the effect of deleting Matthew and adding Paris via the Keywords panel:

    The File Info > Keywords field maintains the manual order 

    L
    Lumigraphics
    Legend
    August 13, 2021

    @John_R_Ellis

    now look at the Keyword panel. Are they in alphabetical order? Add some other keywords that way.

    johnrellis
    johnrellis
    Legend
    August 13, 2021

    "its 1 or 2 lines of codes to change to give the option."

    It would be quite a bit more code than that. LR stores keywords in a table with columns <photo id, keyword id>.  It would need to add an additional column "position".  Then everywhere in the application that modifies a photo's keywords, the code would need to update the positions.

    But I agree with your higher level point -- it's very straightforward to implement.

    johnrellis
    johnrellis
    Legend
    August 13, 2021

    In my test of Bridge, I manually ordered the keywords in File > File Info:

    And Exiftool shows that Bridge wrote those keywords to XMP:Subject and IPTC:Keywords in the same order:
    W
    WhitcombeRD
    Known Participant
    August 2, 2021

    "Bridge doesnt do this" other than me highlighting exact steps to get Bridge to do it with 100% repeatability?

    Ultimately there is no standard that says keywords SHOULD be alphabetical, no standard for keyword sorting.

    Various places want keywords in priority order (Adobe Stock, Alamy and others for starters) and its 1 or 2 lines of codes to change to give the option.
    Theres no standard OR technical reason why this change couldn't be made.

    L
    Lumigraphics
    Legend
    August 2, 2021

    No, Bridge DOESN'T do this. So I'd say we are done here, we can't have a discussion if we can't even agree on what's out in plain sight.

    W
    WhitcombeRD
    Known Participant
    August 2, 2021

    @lumigraphics

    You seem to lack any knowledge or understanding.

    The standards do not specify an order.

    The standards do not specify keywords must be in alphabetical orders.  By your own arguments, LR is breaking those standards by sorting into an order that isn't required.  So exporting in the order they were entered is no different to that.

    There is absolutely nothing in any of the applicable formats and standards that says any order of keywords is wrong.

    And again, Bridge DOES do this.  Its only LR that doesn't.

    L
    Lumigraphics
    Legend
    August 2, 2021

    @richard_whitcombe

    Speaking of rubbish... Bridge sorts keywords differently in different places at the same time. Hello.

    WHAT YOU WANT IS NOT IN THE STANDARD.

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