P: New Way to Handle Related Groups of Photos

CustomMetadata now includes grouping features.

Its a far cry from what could be done natively, but is useful nevertheless.

#1: Yep, exactly as you said it. There is currently no way to get to jpeg sidecar file. This is probably the smallest and easiest feature to implement.

#2: Simple solution to problem you mentioned here would be to select photos inside "panorama group" that you would like as independent photos and make virtual copies.

#3: Slick solution....I like how that sounds hehe

#4: Yes

zigzag,

I can see how it might be useful to draw these distinctions - thank you for weighing in.

Regarding #1: Clearly having a jpeg sidecar that there is no way to "get to" (or get rid of) is one of those things that seems absurd to me. I mean, what's the point of having it in Lightroom if you can't see it, or do anything with it... - correct me if I'm missing something (I haven't shot raw+jpeg in some time, and when I did, I quickly changed preference to handle them independently, but I just did a quick-check...)

Regarding #2: Clearly some photos are merely constituents of a photo, and should not be thought of as photos in their own right, e.g. HDR. On the other hand, each member of a panorama could also be considered a photo in its own right. Now that I think about it, it could also be useful to think of HDR constituents as independent photos for some purposes. My point being that hopefully the design will not shut any doors (like raw+jpeg sidecar handling does now).

Regarding #3: This is where things get a little tricky for me. Perhaps it suffices to say I hope Adobe will think about this and come up with a slick solution.

Regarding #4: This is essentially the master/v-copy relationship right?

...

Rob

Might be useful to break better handling of related files down to multiple cases/issues:

1. One photo has multiple sources. (raw+jpeg)
Only ability to switch between sources is needed in addition to current default behavior.

2. One photo consists of multiple sources. (hdr, panorama)
These are special kind of groups that would almost require Lightroom to implement HDR and panorama functionality. But it may be enough to have ability to create this special kind of groups and have simple API to allow external applications/plugin combining of photos in these groups to hdr/panorama photos.

3. Multiple photos are somehow related (multiple photos, 1-multiple outputs)
3.1 Stacks/groups (bursts etc.)
One photo can be only in one group at a time.
Any useful improvement to general stacks/groups handling is welcome. (predefined types)
3.2 Collections (maybe)
One photo can be in multiple collections at the same time (or have multiple tags).
Collections could be be something in-between catalogs and tags. Think of it as sub-catalogs. (One way to implement this may be to add ability to promote tags. Promoted tags could then be viewed as collections inside of catalog.)

4. One photo source has multiple output photos (different corrections, edits...)
Keeping track of all outputs/derivatives and linking back to original source.

Paul - your post above is probably the best so far to capture the essence of what this 'Idea' has become, from a user perspective. If I may summarize conceptually:

What we're talking about here is a stack-like feature (to replace stacks), except a photo can be in more than one "stack", and "stacks" can be nested, and named, and may have special features tied to them, depending on type. Some example built-in "stack" types:

- raw/jpg
- master/v-copy
- original/externally-edited
- *user-defined
- legacy stack (for backward compatibility with Lr3- stacks)

*In addition to the groups maintained natively by Lightroom (see above), user could create / name their own "stacks", for example:

"by the pool"
"in the red dress"
"burst of falcon in flight"
"pano of grand canyon"
"hdr of sunset"

I can imagine Adobe supporting hdrs & panos as built-ins too, but as long as user can define their own, I'm not sure how much that would matter... (would mostly depend on whether there is any special native handling tied to it).

Now that I'm thinking about it, being able to tie a user-defined group handler (e.g. plugin or app) to a group would go nicely - for example, if one defined a group type called "layers", then invoking the layer group handler on a layer group would load all layers into onOne's new perfect-layers plugin, obviating the need to expand, select, then invoke...

Rob

Paul - I don't think this idea is getting the attention it deserves due to people assuming its only about master/copy handling - because of the original description.

Please consider appealing to Adobe to replace the original description, and cite Master/Copy as a "use case" instead.

Otherwise, I'm planning to write up a new 'Idea' and reference this one, suggesting a merge with this one would be 'OK'. I think a lot of people never get past the first paragraph to realize it would benefit them for handling HDRs, panoramas, focus-stacks, externally-edited versions, projects, derivatives, raw+jpeg, bursts, scenes, etc., ..., and so forth, as well as the master/v-copy relationship.

Especially for people who take hundreds or even thousands of photos, that are related in a variety of ways, and then edit some of them externally, and/or make derivatives, and/or virtual copies, ..., I think this idea would be more beneficial than most people realize at first.

Metadata and collections / filtering for this? - too cumbersome and downright inadequate for dealing with (often nested) groups of related photos, me-thinks. If somebody disagrees - please advise of an alternate way for dealing with this stuff, for those of us who've yet to get a good handle on it...

Just use stacks ya say? - I say: "very funny", or "yeah, right"...

Reminder: This 'Idea' evolved considerably since the original 'Idea' (which had a very different title), thus the original description just barely scratches the surface of what this 'Idea' became.

This is one of my highest hopes for Lightroom (2nd only to develop tool enhancements).

Please remember to click the '+1' button up top of page if you like what this idea became.

I think this is sortof what Photographe was driving at when he initiated his thread about stacks.

Put another way, 'stacking', as presently implemented is just "a group" - let us define more groups, and have the software keep track of the obvious/built-in ones too...

And also my previous idea of "atomic stacks" pales in comparison to the new more general grouping solution...

Sounds perfect - thanks Ian.

Thanks. I think "Lightroom: New Way to Handle Related Groups of Photos" would do it.