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johnrellis
Legend
April 16, 2018
Released

P: Presets including raw profiles are sometimes available for non-raws, sometimes not

  • April 16, 2018
  • 53 replies
  • 1500 views

[LR 8.1 now displays partially compatible presets in grey italics, which will avoid the confusion experienced by many users:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-presets-including-raw-profiles-are-...]

Presets including raw profiles via Treatment & Profile are sometimes visible in the Presets panel when a non-raw is selected, sometimes not.  This is confusing.

- Presets including DCP raw profiles are visible for non-raws (Adobe Standard and all Camera Matching profiles).

- Presets including enhanced raw profiles are not visible for non-raws (Adobe Color, Monochrome, Landscape, Neutral, Portrait, Vivid).

This is clearly inconsistent behavior, since none of these raw profiles can actually be applied to non-raws.  LR should either hide all such presets for non-raws or make them all available, ignoring the raw profile when the preset is applied to a non-raw.

I think it should make them all available for non-raws, given this use case: People often click the Check All button when creating a preset.  When they round-trip a raw to Photoshop and get back a TIFF, they expect that such a preset should be applicable to the TIFF as much as to a raw, not remembering or knowing they clicked Treatment and Profile.

If LR makes none of these raw-profile-containing presets available for non-raws, then that will create another most frequent FAQ, "Why can't I see my preset?", analogous to "Where are the lens profiles?".

53 replies

johnrellis
Legend
April 17, 2018
This options dialog is part of Camera Raw and not available with LR. It's a useful workaround for advanced users, but most LR users have never used Camera Raw.  And it won't avoid the confusion of users not understanding why they can't see their presets and why some raw presets are visible and others are not.
Bob Somrak
Legend
April 17, 2018
Thanks for that tip.  I created a couple profiles for extending the Highlight/Shadow on HDR and they showed up all the time and now they only show up on HDR photos. The medium extended range works pretty good on HDR photos but the large range so far is just too much.  The extended highlights sliders work great.
M4 Pro Mac Mini. 48GB
cameronrad
Inspiring
April 17, 2018
Right click the profile, hold alt/option and click Rename Profile. You'll see this at the bottom:

cameronr35693364
Participating Frequently
April 17, 2018
Right click the profile, hold alt/option and click Rename Profile. You'll see this at the bottom:

cameronr35693364
Participating Frequently
April 17, 2018
Right click the profile, hold alt/option and click Rename Profile. You'll see this at the bottom:

johnrellis
Legend
April 17, 2018
"Adobe RAW profiles include ( Adobe Color, Adobe Landscape, Adobe Monochrome, Adobe Portrait, Adobe Vivid) these profiles and presets including these profiles are only applicable to RAW images. Adobe Standard as an exception was the old profiles that use to come up with previous versions of Lightroom, it's behavior remains unchanged only that now it is not the default profiles that gets applied during Import."

This doesn't explain why Camara Landscape and Camera Standard can be included in profiles, even though they are also raw profiles that can't be applied to non-raws.
AviMathur
Adobe Employee
Adobe Employee
April 17, 2018
I am sorry if I created more confusion.
Adobe RAW profiles include ( Adobe Color, Adobe Landscape, Adobe Monochrome, Adobe Portrait, Adobe Vivid) these profiles and presets including these profiles are only applicable to RAW images.
Adobe Standard as an exception was the old profiles that use to come up with previous versions of Lightroom, it's behavior remains unchanged only that now it is not the default profiles that gets applied during Import.
Does that resolves your query?
I understand your feature request and will consider it further.
johnrellis
Legend
April 16, 2018
"In general, if the preset/profile is based on a camera model specific DCP then the preset will not show up for other images"

In fact, it's the other way around. If an Adobe engineer is getting confused about this, imagine the confusion of the typical user!

Presets including camera-specific DCP profiles do show up for non-raws. For example, a preset including Adobe Standard or Camera Landscape does appear for a JPEG.  (These profiles are implemented as the original .dcp files, built for each camera.)

It's the presets that include profiles that aren't  camera-specific, e.g. Adobe Color or Adobe Vivid, that disappear for JPEGs and other non-raws.  (These profiles are implemented as the new enhanced profiles in .xmp files and apply to all cameras.)

See the screenshots below.

"Since Adobe Monochrome profile is not available for Jpeg the preset is also not available."

None of these raw profiles can be applied to a JPEG or other non-raw.  Yet presets that include some of them (e.g. Adobe Standard of Camera Landscape) are available for non-raws, while presets that include others of them (e.g. Adobe Color, Adobe Monochrome, or Adobe Vivid) are not available.

This distinction has no usefulness for the user.  If Adobe Standard and Camera Landscape can appear in JPEG presets, why shouldn't Adobe Color or Adobe Monochrome?

As I already stated in my original feature request, it would be best if LR simply ignored the presence of raw profiles in presets when applied to non-raws (as it currently does with Adobe Standard).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I made presets including a number of the raw profiles. Here they are when a raw photo is selected:



And here's what appears when a JPEG is selected:

Bob Somrak
Legend
April 16, 2018
Thanks for the clarification
M4 Pro Mac Mini. 48GB
AviMathur
Adobe Employee
Adobe Employee
April 16, 2018
More generic scenario- Preset having profiles will only show up for the negatives that support those profiles.
Since Adobe Monochrome profile is not available for Jpeg the preset is also not available.
Did I cleared your confusion ? Let me if there is some context or info I  am missing.