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marcbjango
Known Participant
July 27, 2012
Open for Voting

P: Save For Web, Convert to sRGB should be off by default for PNGs and GIFs

  • July 27, 2012
  • 68 replies
  • 9806 views

Photoshop's Save for Web ability contains a setting called Convert to sRGB. If on, it destructively changes the resulting file's colour values from the document's profile to sRGB. I believe this is the wrong thing to do in almost every conceivable scenario. The default behaviour is for Convert to sRGB to be enabled. I think this is a huge mistake.

Let's take a look at some common scenarios.

You're building a website using GIFs:
GIFs can't contain ICC profiles. This means if you're using GIFs, they can't benefit from any colour management at all. Converting to sRGB when saving for web will destructively change their appearance with no benefit. If you've used a specific colour, like #FF0010 in your GIF, it will likely be changed to not match the same colour used in HTML, CSS or other code.

You're building a website using PNGs:
PNGs can contain ICC profiles, but PNGs saved using Save For Web can not. This means if you're using PNGs and Save For Web, they can't benefit from any colour management at all. Converting to sRGB when saving for web will destructively change their appearance with no benefit. If you've used a specific colour, like #FF0010 in your PNG, it will likely be changed to not match the same colour used in HTML, CSS or other code.

You're using a PNG or JPEG image with a colour profile on the web, and it's being shown in a colour managed browser:
In this situation, you wouldn't want Convert to sRGB turned on, you'd want to store the document's ICC profile within the image and let the browser do a realtime correction, based on the viewer's computer and settings.

You're building an iOS app:
iOS uses PNG files almost exclusively for app design. I believe iOS ignores ICC profiles stored in PNGs (this is smart for many reasons, including performance). The best way to ensure colours look good on the device is previewing your UI on the device itself. There is some variation between iOS devices, but Convert to sRGB does not improve consistency. Converting to sRGB when saving iOS assets will destructively change their appearance with no benefit.

You're building an Android app:
Android uses PNG files almost exclusively for app design. I believe Android ignores ICC profiles stored in PNGs (this is smart for many reasons, including performance). The best way to ensure colours look good on the device is previewing your UI on the device itself. There is wild variation between Android devices, but Convert to sRGB does not improve consistency. Converting to sRGB when saving iOS assets will destructively change their appearance with no benefit.




I can not think of any scenario where Convert to sRGB makes sense. If, in the highly unlikely event you do need to convert a document to sRGB, it can be done using Edit → Convert to Profile.

Why was Convert to sRGB added in the first place?




Further reading.
Colour management and UI design — My article. Explains the situation with more depth.
A search for "save for web color shift" returns over 8 million results. This is a real and significant issue for many people. An issue that can be fixed by changing a single default setting.
Save For Web, Simply — Note that the settings recommended match what I'm suggesting.




This is a big deal.
This has been demonstrably incorrect for a very long time. I don't know any web or app designer worth their salt who keeps Convert to RGB on. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that if it was permanently turned on, I wouldn't be using Photoshop for any screen design work.

By changing the default behaviour, I think Adobe could remove a lot of frustration for Photoshop and Illustrator users.

68 replies

Inspiring
July 27, 2012
>> This is absolutely NOT true.

Sorry, but it is true. We've been testing browsers for compliance with color management, and they're all over the bloody map (again, we're working on that in various standards groups).

You think things are simpler because you're missing all the complications.
marcbjango
Known Participant
July 27, 2012
For UI and icon design: RGB, 8bits per pixel, Don't Color Manage This Document, don't use View > Proof Colors and turn off Convert to sRGB when exporting. Oh, and under Edit > Color Settings, set your RGB Working Space to your monitor profile.

And make sure you dither all your gradients (unless you're using them as part of a stretchable button with a 1px wide repeating centre).
Inspiring
July 27, 2012
I have never understood the purpose of this setting with PNGs and GIFs either. It's now the first thing I check when I have color issues, but the fact my output didn't match what I was seeing or the color values I was getting with the eyedropper never made sense to me.
Inspiring
July 27, 2012
So what’s the ideal starting point for a new document?

Which color mode with how many bits and what color profile do you recommend?
PECourtejoie
Community Expert
Community Expert
July 27, 2012
I can.
Done.
marcbjango
Known Participant
July 27, 2012
That's a good suggestion. I'd change the topic to "Convert to sRGB should be off by default, or removed altogether for PNGs and GIFs" if I could. I think I can't edit it now?

Just to clarify: I'm talking about exporting non-photo elements. User interfaces, icons, and non-photo-based website designs.

Also, I definitely accept that it's very likely that UI designers make up a small portion of Photoshop's userbase.
PECourtejoie
Community Expert
Community Expert
July 27, 2012
Maybe should the thread title be edited so that "for GIF and PNG" is added?

Because the main reason of the addition of that checkbox was the jpegs, that the photographers output for the web, if i'm not mistaken.
PECourtejoie
Community Expert
Community Expert
July 27, 2012
Marc, how will SFW know that you're outputting for web/UI design, and not just outputting photos? You suggest a different setting for GIF/PNG than for JPEG, right, in that case, it makes sense, if it is not already the case.

I'm sure there are way more Photographers outputting for the web, than there are UI designers, the default makes more sense in Photoshop than it would in Fireworks, IMHO.

Chris has been hearing for years about Photographers that had their photos' colors change once put on the web/seen in a non color managed program/browser.
marcbjango
Known Participant
July 27, 2012
When do browsers behave differently? Please give me an example.

Part of the issue is that both you and Chris are using abstract examples. Give me specific examples and I'll show you why Convert to sRGB is a bad idea.
c.pfaffenbichler
Community Expert
Community Expert
July 27, 2012
Quote: »Everyone wants the same thing — for Photoshop to behave like their browser.«
No, thank you, but not everyone wants that.
Also, there are people who use more than one browser and those browsers can behave differently so the claim seems to contain a potential inconsistency.