P: Smart Objects: Auto-convert JPGs to PSD

An analogy that may fit in here possibly is the more recent understanding of how distributed degrees of intelligence make animal and human coordination work. Nerves and muscles interact directly at loci out in the limbs, and together arrange what movement or strength is appropriate. It's not a 'logic' monovalently organized by the brain. You can teach it by training to task (sport).

This understanding is the reason sophisticated robots work where before they didn't, exemplified by the military creatures that can be pushed downhill and recover, far from falling over or in fact what a human could do. Very effective, and yes, a little frightening if you've seen one.

Translation: fixing up alternate file formats sounds like a separable task from logic of how to handle abstract embedded or embed-created 'smart' objects. Etc..

Well, now the photoshop.com site thinks I've used profanity 'on a family orientated site'. This is the wrong kind of intelligence again. I wonder how I can locate what confuses it, outside of a binary search? You may see a number of edits of this message.

Ok it didn't like the word I used which described pushing abruptly with your foot on the robots. I substituted pushed for the word beginning with a 'k'.

No, it would need additional UI more complex than what is in page layout apps - because using such a tracking database gets really complex, really fast. We have thought about it, and researched previous attempts to do something similar - but they didn't end well.

We listen so we can extend and improve. But some requests do not make sense, and will not be be implemented. That's just a fact of life.

I listen and implement a lot of the customer requests made in this (and other) forums. But when we say "no" it isn't because we are not listening, it is because the idea has flaws, the user's understanding has flaws, or sometimes because the request violates basic logic (or sometimes basic UI design principles). That's why we respond and try to understand the requests, and try to help others understand the problems - even if it is a problem with the user's understanding of how the universe works. In some cases we can do something else (not quite as the user imagined) to solve the issue once we understand the problem. And at times it all boils down to a simple user mistake that we can't do anything about.

hmm, additional UI like Adobe already has had for years in InDesign? And why not adequately smart-adaptive, to handle obvious cases as art people here have been trying to inform?

'impossible'. Well, Chris, I'm pretty busy, but you give me incentive to look over the 'creative suite' field again.

So I found Affinity Serif. Competitive with Illustrator and InDesign already, to some evidently useful degree, competition for Photoshop in free beta. Yes, it's Mac first, but Windows to come. Highly complemented, award-winning, and already has embedding.

Is embedding extended as would be natural to make smart objects yet? Uncertain, but you can fill in on your own the likelihood.

Can use Adobe files? Yes, and again, would feel unlikely there won't be natural extensions fulfilling needs people are seriously talking about in public. You can find out for yourself how it's sold.

When you stop developing the reality of something, i.e. especially in this age, stop listening with an ear to extend and improve, well, that's a blank you could fill in also. Thanks to Charles, Adobe may not have to.

I really am trying not to be unkind here, and hope to be succeeding. Adobe as a company should be able to learn to shift in a world where technology is possible in many places, and markets can be as intelligent as the actual persons who may seem to fall in them, but again, who we now understand differently. As persons no less capable, likely differently capable, as ourselves. Best I can offer.

Smart Objects are not fragile, but quite robust. But they are not omniscient.

And no, keeping an alternate representation is not logically possible given the variations in file format capabilities.

A database that tracks all possible changes to a document could help, but would need additional UI to show conflicts and ask which saved version you really wanted to update.

Yes, posts that violate the terms of use for the site (SPAM, off topic, threats, insults, duplicate post mistakes, trolling, etc.) will be removed. It's a public forum, so we get a lot of messes that need to be cleaned up.

You know, thinking about this for just a moment, an evident solution exists. I am sure there are many better others.

If the smart object software is so fragile in its design at present, then simply keep a version in the format it likes always. Update that from the editable format the expert with the software prefers. Open the editable when asked to edit; auto-save to the embed-preferred format also when the editable is saved.

It's not as if Adobe isn't profligate with such copies, inside or outside of file packages. Someday with better operating systems or an Adobe-grown database layer, all can go away to better and not immediately visible place anyway.

And again, the inventive may come up with even better ideas, while to say working as desired by customers is impossible...well.

Well, others may not think so, and I notice you've removed a lot of comments from others also in this topic.

One thought I might add is that the future of software is so clearly in the humanistically adaptive modes as I've mentioned, which is why Adobe corporately as well as in its contributing practitioners should surely pay much attention to it.

Otherwise, how is software to enable the many, who are talented each in their own ways, and adept at problem solving themselves? It seems a core subject.

Your comment contained things other than a compliment to Charles, and those things violated the site terms of use, and thus the comment was removed.

Chris, you removed my compliment to Charles - badly done, besides the rest of it. I am putting it in again here, phrased again, and addressed to his point of view.

Charles, thank you very kindly for standing up and entering in here on the positive, forward-moving, and attentive way. It is much appreciated.

As far as embeddable objects, as you probably know and others should, Apple attempted this in the mid-early days of the Mac and its OS, where it very seldom was actually operable. Adobe finally brought the concept to work adequately in the CS packages, only amongst its own software.

Object embedding is technically, but especially humanistically, a large challenge. There are many possible states, not to speak of the unexpecteds-handling necessary, and there are many ways that persons who use the results may vary in their natural expectations.

Truly good software is a pleasure as it as automatically as possible adjusts and adapts in these humanistic ways. I am sure you know the feeling when met.

A talented designer will do the best they can with their imagination, and then prepare to deal intelligently with the further cases that are sure to come, admitting to the complexity of the case.. Smoothness and dependability to the person who uses the design comes above all else, for friendly manners, for product value, and for actual technical competency, the kind we reward,

That's the path you're on, and I commend it. This is the kind of thinking which will save Adobe from itself, at least on the technical side. Also others, if those in high chairs realize to listen similarly,

Thank you, and the tip of an experienced hat,
Clive

No, it really isn't up for discussion. This is a very obvious, simple user error in a situation that we really cannot change (at least not without gutting the usability of Smart Objects).