P: Smart Objects: Auto-convert JPGs to PSD

Marcus and pgurney, I'm a researcher with the Photoshop team. If you're game it'd great to connect. Sometimes there's slippage between our intentions and user expectations, and its obviously of benefit to understand that and potentially address it. I'm at cpearson@adobe.com, be in touch!

It doesn't look like Chris will ever be convinced the users of Photoshop actually know what they need - heck, who are we to know - we're just designers who use the product all day long! Surely the engineer knows best!

But here's a solution that doesn't conflict with any of the counter arguments (however weak and illogical they are) -> add a new freaking option!

As a subset of "Always Create Smart Object when Placing", add "Convert placed image files to PSD Smart Objects".

There are several benefits that you should see (linking files, editing in other apps, etc.), plus more that would take a bit of thought to understand. And much of it is just required by the nature of linked files (you must track the file that was linked, not copies of it that were saved somewhere else).

And yes, ignoring warnings and the details in the manual usually does lead to problems.

No, the placed files need to be saved in their own format as much as possible, not converted to PSB. Converting everything to PSB would destroy much of the functionality and power of Smart Objects, and is not even possible when linking files. And, of course, we can't convert vector files (PDF, AI, EPS) into PSB without losing the vector nature of the files.

Please, stop trying to explain your mistake. We already understand that you made a mistake, and the nature of that mistake. Instead, take some time to read the warnings, read the help files, and try not to repeat your mistake in the future.

Chris, there might be reasons for the internal design that I can't see, but
from a users standpoint I can't see any benefit in that design. I just cost me hours of extra work, so it annoys me tremendously. It makes my work harder and kills valuable life time. I have not seen any advantage that this behavior would give me. If all placed embedded pixel objects would be internally saved in psb format all the problems and inconsistent behaviors would be gone. I need to go to bed now, but I will try to explain you in more detail why this behavior causes pain in various situations. If you have time I would be glad if you can give me examples where this behavior is of benefit to the user experience.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is not a bug, it should use the original file when placing. Photoshop only has to resort to using PSB when you create a new Smart Object from layers, because the file has to hold every possible thing that can exist in a Photoshop document.

The preference is unrelated to your mistakes and does not need any changes.

The mistake is still when you saved your edited file to a different filename or format.

Yes, that is the way it worked in earlier versions. That behavior has not changed a bit since I first wrote the code for Smart Objects. Again, there are reasons behind that behavior, partly to allow flexibility in editing, partly to allow for linked Smart Objects. Yes, the documentation and that warning dialog all say that it should work the way it does work. No, working the way it should is not a bug.

No, you can't really argue that it is a bug in the design, partly because you don't seem to understand even a fraction of the design.

I don't disagree with you about changes in a JPEG file at all. The problem is not the jpeg file. The problem is that Photoshop saves a placed file in the original file format when that setting is turned on instead of using a psb/psd format. That is the whole problem.
The preference is not unrelated. It makes the difference in the workflow. So the better workaround is to turn the setting off and manually turn the layer of the placed file into a smart object. This saves me hours of work when I need to replace with higher resolutions.

Chris, I double checked the help file. You are correct that the stated behavior is that Photoshop will save embedded files with the original format:

"Although you can place JPEG files, it's better to place PSD, TIFF, or PSB files because you can add layers, modify pixels, and resave the file without loss. (Saving a modified JPEG file requires you to flatten new layers and recompress the image, causing image quality degradation)."

This was not the way it worked in earlier versions. I might have access to a 5.5 version end of the week. I will double check it. Therefore you can argue if it is a bug due to the changed behavior and the dependency on just a setting or if it is just a very bad design decision. For me a bug is a behavior that doesn't follow the manual. So in that case I have to admit that you would be right and it would not be a bug. It might be questioned if a bug is still a bug if the manual has been changed to reflect the buggy behavior 😉

In any case the main topic remains: Is that behavior a desired behavior or should it be changed?

There is no bug here. Repeating the facts of your mistake while trying to claim that it is not a mistake really doesn't work. And trying to attribute the problem to a completely unrelated preference isn't helping, either.

Please, please read what I've already written. I've explained this over and over - it is just a simple user mistake because you saved your file to a different filename or format.

Yes, you can make changes to a JPEG and save it as JPEG - as long as those changes can work with the JPEG format (no layers, no change of color mode, etc.). Lots of people do this in Smart Object workflow all the time.

The Save As dialog must come up if you have something in your document that cannot be saved in the original file format. Even then you can choose to save as a copy back to the original file format and filename (as instructed by the warning when you start editing a smart object).