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Question

How to frameserve from Premiere CS5?

Forum|Forum|15 years ago
September 23, 2010
21 replies
39839 views

Dears,

since Debugmode Frameserver is not working in Premiere CS5, also Avisynth is not working with CS5 version nor ProCoder and CCE doesn't have export plugin for Premiere CS5, my question is do we have option to frameserve Premiere timeline to some external coder or only encoding workflow (for DVD - MPEG2) is using Adobe Media Encoder?

Please, share your experience with encoding and frameserving.

Thanks.

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Colin Brougham

Participating Frequently

QUICK UPDATE:

We're getting very close to the end of the project. The necessary funds have been collected; it's just a matter of putting them together from the various payment collection services now

At this point, the frameserver is functional and stable. The programmer is trying to work on optimizing the frameserver now, hopefully to take advantage of multithreading, etc. The goal is to add as little overhead in the frameserving process, and make it at least as fast--if not faster--than exporting an intermediate file and encoding from that.

We're shooting for sometime in the middle of this coming week for a release; as with most software, that is subject to fluctuation. Stay tuned here for more...

Many thanks to everyone who contributed to the project!

S

sebrame

Inspiring

I just donated to the project. I may or may not ever use the DMFS functionality. I'm just a big fan of this type of innovation - user driven.

Steve Brame

Colin Brougham

Participating Frequently

AND YET ANOTHER UPDATE:

This is the big one, folks: the auto-timeout feature is now part of the FrameServer plug-in, and is fully functional!

There is a new option in the encoding settings for the frameserver that allows you to set a timeout of 10-120 seconds. You set this option for any frameserved AVI that you would like to automatically terminate when the frameserver is no longer pushing frames. The timeout can be used with either Export or Queue, but it's with Queue where it is most powerful.

If you send a number of frameserved items to the AME queue with timeouts set, you can have the signpost AVI files saved into the watch folder of a third-party encoder. When the encoder works through the first signpost file, the timeout begins counting down; when time is up, the current frameserver ends and the next one in the AME queue begins. The signpost AVI created by this frameserved item lands in the third-party encoder's watch folder, and the process continues. It works amazingly well. The real power of this would be to combine it with network frameserving, where your watch folder is somewhere on your network that both of your computers can access; your host machine is simply dishing out frames, while the render machine is the one doing the heavy lifting. This would all be happening in the background, thanks to the AME queue and the new timeout capability of the FrameServer.

I did a screen recording of this iteration of the plug-in in action; as before, please review and let me know if you have any questions.

Click to view MP4 online or right-click and Save As to view locally.

Mark Morreau

Inspiring

Thanks so much for getting the word and the demos out there Colin.

This looks great.

If anyone thinks they might use this can I please urge you to contribute financially to the project, as Colin and I and others have done. Even a small contributions will benefit us all and help us get there soon!

Cheers

Mark

Colin Brougham

Participating Frequently

Thanks Mark! I appreciate you weighing in. I just threw $10 more into the hat, in the hopes that we can get this out to everyone sooner rather than later. I would guess that by next week, we'll have a final release version, assuming no show-stopper bugs are found, and that improvements and optimizations continue at the rate they have.

I'll keep you all posted...

Colin Brougham

Participating Frequently

ANOTHER UPDATE:

I had just completed a screen recording of the FrameServer in action, when lo and behold, another new version showed up in my inbox. As such, I've done a screen recording using this latest version, which demostrates the plug-in's functionality and some of the new features.

New in this update are a couple of new color space export modes--UYVY and VUYA--and the frameserving status is now integrated with the Export and Queue processes. With Export, there is no "frameserving" pop-up; instead it is the simple Encoding pop-up we're accustomed to, and with Queue, the status bar now shows the vide frame rate and audio sample rate. This contributes to a much cleaner interface and less clutter with the frameserver.

At this point, the only major hurdle left is the auto timeout function; this might appear today, but I don't know for certain. When I do receive that version, I'll do another quick screen recording to show how that functionality will work.

Please let me know if you have any questions or comments after you view the video below. If you can help push us closer to a final release version, your support would be greatly appreciated.

Click to view MP4 online or right-click and Save As to view locally.

Colin Brougham

Participating Frequently

Interestingly enough, the Premiere Pro CS5 5.0.3 update that just became available actually seems to make the frameserver work faster and more smoothly. Frameserved sections that were a little chunky to both playback or randomly access are now much more responsive. Wish I'd thought to have done a comparison test before installing the update--that would confirm that this isn't just a placebo effect--but I guess the most important fact is that the frameserver continues to function with the update.

Colin Brougham

Participating Frequently

BIG UPDATE!

I just received a new version of the frameserver, and the problem of really slow performance has been SOLVED!

Here's the basics: apparently, in the CS4 version, the Maximum Render Quality was toggled on and hardwired into the code, so that regardless of that parameter's state in the Export Settings window, frameserved AVIs were always being rendered in Maximum Render Quality. This lead to the massive slow down in performance that we witnessed in the CS4 version and to an extent in the CS5 version.

However, the new version of the frameserver exporter now functions CORRECTLY so that the MRQ is off by default and is only enabled if you check the box in the Export Settings window. I just did a quick test with a brief but effect-laden sequence frameserved to Sorenson Squeeze; the old version took about 13-14 minutes to do this particular encode, whereas the new version took less than 2 minutes! Another test with enabling MRQ in the Export Settings window slowed the external encode back to about the 13 minute range, proving that the toggle works correctly now. Additionally, playback in software players and loading the signpost AVI into encoders is virtually instanenous now, with MRQ disabled. Honestly, I can't tell the difference between the file encoded with MRQ and the one without, so I think the speed increase is going to be the more important factor here.

We also have some other cool new features, like a UYVY color space mode (which I'm sure means something to somebody ) and the ability to network frameserve simply by saving the signpost AVI on a network share. Any computer that can access the share can encode over the network, effectively letting you offload your encoding to another system and letting you continue to edit on your main system. This feature is available due largely to the fact that the frameserver can now be queued from AME.

Coming soon: tighter integration with the Adobe interface (no extraneous pop-ups, even though they are minimal and relatively unintrusive now) and the auto-timeout feature. I didn't get to do a screen recording today, but will do one soon so you guys can see this thing in action. Not only is the FrameServer back, it's better than ever...

S

Stile35_DJAuthor

Participating Frequently

Thank you Colin for this information. It is really encouraging. How did you get this testing version? What should I do (or pay) to test it?

Colin Brougham

Participating Frequently

Right now, there isn't a testing version available; since all the funds have not been collected yet to pay the programmer who is adapting the frameserver to 64-bit, it hasn't been made available for the general public. It was entrusted to me that I not distribute this version, and for the sake of seeing a final version with all the new functionality, I must respect those wishes. Once the money has been raised in full, the plug-in will be made available for general release. I'm going to do a screen recording here shortly of the plug-in in action, as proof of its functionality and new features. I can understand anyone's reluctance to contribute financially to the project--I was reticent at first--but it would help us bring this project to a successful close. If you feel you can contribute even a few dollars, a page has been set up with several donation options: http://photomir.dn.ua/debug/index.html

I'm putting in a few more bucks in a moment to help speed things along. I'll try to have a screen recording up within an hour.

Colin Brougham

Participating Frequently

UPDATE:

I'm playing with a new version of the frameserver as I write this. There are several new features, including those that have been mentioned previously and demonstrated in the screen recordings, and some that are just starting to coalesce. Most importantly, the automatic deinterlacing bug has been fixed, or appears to be fixed, anyway; I haven't been able to recreate the problem in my testing of this version. Also, I'm frameserving a DVCPROHD 720/24pN P2 MXF clip right now using my 2.26GHz Core2Duo laptop off a single hard drive, and playback is realtime in Media Player Classic HC. Granted, this isn't a real intensive test, but it is encouraging that improvements have happened and will continue.

Here's a screen shot of a sequence I queued from PPro to AME (simple DV clip) being frameserved to VirtualDub 64-bit:

Tomorrow, I'll try to do a brief screen recording of the frameserver in action, just in case anyone needs further proof

Colin Brougham

Participating Frequently

To anyone even mildly interested in having a frameserver with CS5:

I'm happy to report that this is really really real I've been briefly testing a debug version of the frameserver (earlier than the last videos posted here, so without a few of the new enhancements), and it works! We've uncovered a few bugs--for example, interlaced video is being automatically deinterlaced when frameserved, so that's obviously a crippling bug--but the communication lines are open and the hired programmer is working on a fix. Additionally, we'll see some new features like integration with the AME interface (e.g. all parameters are set in AME, not the FS dialog) and the ability to queue multiple items for frameserving via the AME queue, and have an auto-timeout built into the frameserver.

This is proving to be a truly international effort, and we're getting close to being able to have a release version--at present, we're about 75% of the way there on the needed funds to pay the programmer (~$360 of $500). If you'd like to help move this effort forward, and can spare even a few bucks toward it, please use the link in one of the above posts to contribute. I'll probably put a few more bucks into it, but we could use some help!

(For those interested, I've successfully encoded a file using Sorenson Squeeze, TMPGEnc Xpress, and Handbrake using the frameserver.)

Jeff Bellune

Legend

Thanks, Colin.

Can you briefly summarize how the multiple items queued in the AME feature should work? I'm not getting my head around the mechanics of it, or how it would be used in the real world.

-Jeff

Colin Brougham

Participating Frequently

Jeff,

Certainly; do note that this is based on loose Google-assisted conversations, and not anything experiential yet, but this is how I understand it to work...

There are several changes to the frameserver that have or will enable this ability. For one, the frameserver settings are now part of the Export Settings panel, just as they would be with any other codec. For example, on the Video tab, you have the RGB24, RGB32, and YUY2 options we're accustomed to, as well as the Network Frameserving option; I believe there are a couple other small options, but the test version I'm using does not have those. The Audio tab has the PCM samples option. Previously, all of these settings would have appeared in a separate frameserver setup dialog (you remember the one) that popped up after you hit Export; that dialog is no longer part of the workflow. As such, you'll now be able to save frameserver encoding presets that could be batch applied in the AME queue.

The second enhancement is that the frameserved AVI is no longer called "signpost.avi" by default; rather, like any other item exported from PPro, it takes the name of the queued clip or sequence, so you have unique signpost AVI file names. A trifle, perhaps, but I'm getting there...

The third enhancement--mostly in concert with the above--is that because that dialog is gone, there is no longer the "Next" button on the Setup dialog. Now, once you hit Export (or the AME queue begins), the signpost AVI is writte, the frameserver status window comes up, and frameserving is active. Simple change, but that sets up the next cool feature...

There will now be a user-configurable "timeout" that will be set in the export settings that will essentially terminate the current frameserving process (basically, an automated click of the "Stop Serving" button) when frames are no longer being served after that duration of time. So, let's say you set the timeout for 120 seconds; ordinarily, as encoding of the signpost AVI was continuing, frames would be continuously streaming through the frameserver even if encoding was slow. As long as that is happening, the frameserver stays active for that particular encode. Once the third-party app stops requesting frames--which it will do once encoding is completed--the timeout timer kicks in and when that duration elapses (in our case, 120 seconds), the current frameserver is terminated. If we have a number of frameserved items queued in AME, when that first one terminates, AME will automatically go to the next item; because we no longer have to manually click the "Next" button (see why that's important now ), the next frameserver instance launches. This automatic start and stop procedure will continue until all items in the AME are processed.

Now, obviously what this necessitates is having a third-party encoder that employs watch folders--I seem to recall that you are a Sorenson Squeeze user, so you're covered. Basically, you'd create a watch folder in your third-party app, and then set the frameserver to create the signpost AVIs in that watched folder; as each signpost AVI appears in the folder, the third-party app will encode it. Since the frameserved AVI has a unique name, there is no issue with overwriting earlier encodes, since watch folders usually just append some suffix to the incoming file name. Once the third-party app stops pulling frames, the timeout timer engages, and the process continues.

I have not tested this yet, so I cannot yet comment on how it works, but that's the theory. What I am anxious to see is if this queue option can be combined with network frameserving; in my mind, this would be a truly awesome implementation, because you could then effectively offload your encoding to another system on your network, and continue working on your editing machine. Theoretically, you shouldn't incur too much of a performance hit, since all the host computer would be doing is dishing up frames across the network to another computer. We'd finally have a sort of cobbled together export farm!

Anyway, I know you asked for a brief explanation, but I'm not too good at being brief, if you haven't noticed Let me know if you have any questions or ideas on how to make this better. I think we're still in the cooking phase, so now is the time to refine this to work in a manner that we'd like. I should note that frameserving of HD assets and heavily-effected sequences is rather slow at this point (I believe that that was what plagued the CS4 frameserver), but the programmer is working to optimize this. So far, the guy has performed admirably, and has been receptive to feature requests and bug reports, so I have no doubt that this will happen.

Colin

EDIT: Oh, if you're up for a little more Google-translated fun, check out the thread that Vasya (the gentleman that has spearheaded this effort) is maintaining. There is quite a bit of interest by some of our overseas counterparts...

Mark Morreau

Inspiring

Normally one would use some sort of Escrow service. We put our money into escrow. When programmer has finished work and bug-free plug-in received then funds are released from escrow.

https://www.escrow.com/solutions/escrow/process.asp

taravasya

Known Participant

No. On that moment i can get money from Мoneybookers and Western Union

Sorry. Those service(Escrow) not available in Russia and Ukraine

Mark Morreau

Inspiring

Moneybookers do an escrow service:

http://www.moneybookers.com/app/help.pl?s=escrow

S

Stile35_DJAuthor

Participating Frequently

OK guys. It seems that we have person who is willing to develop Frameserver to support Premiere CS5 64-bit version. Like I said before, I am willing to pay for it. Can we somehow agree to pay Mark for development. If it will be fluent and fast, we can contribute financialy. How can we arrange it?

Mark Morreau

Inspiring

Uh, no, you can't pay me! I'm no programmer!! We would have to find someone to do that. Perhaps via the method you suggested earlier? I know NOTHING about programming, possibly not even enough to write the brief for a programmer...

taravasya

Known Participant

Hi guy`s! I'm not sure that I can be here to write like that, but I hope that the administration of the forum will treat me loyally. In any case, I hasten to warn that it is not advertising!
On the site which is dedicated to like our requirements,I left a request for paid execution plugin Debug Mode Frame Server for 64-bit CS5. Responded to this proposal three people. One of them says that it is almost done. The price of issue of $500. Who cares, write to my email (taravasya@bigmir.net) I will try to gather as much people that like to each it was not very expensive.

Mark Morreau

Inspiring

Colin, Stile35, anyone else interested in contributing, please could you contact me regarding this discussion about creating a CS5 version of Frameserver? my e-mail is mark at mediacircus dot biz. Thanks!

Mark Morreau

Inspiring

I have been in touch with Satish, and he says:

Yes you can pay someone to work on CS5 support for the frameserver.
Please note that the open source code of frameserver is licensed under
GPL (http://code.google.com/p/frame-server/source/browse/trunk/LICENSE)
and according to that all adding features to frameserver means the
person has to contribute the source code for those changes back to the
frameserver project. I don't have time to work on it but I'll gladly
provide help to any other programmer you can find and pay to work on
it. Once they have added CS5 support I can also integrate that into
the official frameserver code and release a new version so all users
can benefit from it.

Good luck and let me know once you get someone to work on it.

Cheers
Satish

So, anyone else willing to chip in financially to help get this done?

Mark Morreau

Inspiring

I too would be willing to contribute financially to paying a programmer to port Debug Mode Framseserver to CS5. Now that Satish has made it open source we can do this... well, if we could programme we could!

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