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M
MGC 2015
Participant
July 25, 2022
Question

Audition dithering when it shouldn't (with repro steps & video proof)

  • July 25, 2022
  • 1 reply
  • 640 views

Audition has had a problem with unwanted dithering when saving 16-bit files (confirmed with both 44.1khz & 48khz.) At least two other threads report this issue but people weren't able to understand or reproduce the issue, possibly because their meter was set to -60dB which isn't sensitive enough to register dither noise. (And possibly because the issue wasn't explained clearly.)

 

I have video evidence of the problem (with audio, I talk through each step): https://youtu.be/LxuOeWcUmQk

 

This is 100% reproducible with the steps below:

 

Current version Adobe Audition (build 22.5.0.51)

  1. File > New > Audio File (44,100 hz - Stereo - 16 bits)
  2. Right-click on your Levels meter, set it to 120 dB range
  3. Edit > Insert Silence > Duration: 0:05.000
    1. Press play to confirm silence (notice nothing registers on the levels meter)
      5. File > Save As > test1.wav
             Location: c:\Temp
             Format: Wave PCM
             Sample Type: 44100 Hz Stereo, 16-bit (CLICK CHANGE)
      6. Confirm that Bit Depth > Advanced > Dithering : DISABLED
      7. Click OK to confirm and save the file
      8. Press play to confirm silence (notice nothing registers on the levels meter)
      9. File > Close
      10. File > Open (reopen the .WAV you just saved)
      11. Presss play to confirm silence -- but notice unwanted dithering noise just below 90dB!!! This shouldn't be there because dithering was turned OFF during save.

 

This doesn't happen with 24 bit files, but "just use 24 bit instead" doesn't solve the problem for those of us in situations that require editing 16 bit files.

 

The problem isn't limited to just newly created files. You can open an existing 16-bit WAV, normalize it, confirm that no dithering was added, save it with dithering turned off..... And when you reopen it, it will have unwanted dithering.

 

This is unusual behavior for an audio editor! Sound Forge, for example, does not do this. I would LOVE to move back to Audition because SF is unpleasant for various reasons.

 

NOTE: The problem appears to be related to the setting in the save options. The behavior appears to be flipped in certain circumstances (16bit, 44.1 / 48 khz) -- turn dithering on and your file won't have dithering. Turn it off and you will.

 

PS. Because Audition defaults to -60 dB, this issue is likely happening to a lot of users and they just aren't aware.

 

PS #2. Yes, I understand the value of dithering -- but Audition shouldn't add dithering when you tell it not to and it's a destructive process when you don't want it. There are circumstances in which unwanted dithering can be a very serious problem.

 

This issue has plagued Audition for over a year. I really hope you guys can fix it! I would be SO grateful to have this resolved.

 

 

 

This topic has been closed for replies.

1 reply

M
MGC 2015Author
Participant
July 25, 2022

While I provided an explicit reproducible process to prove the problem --- it also constantly during normal use.

 

The solution of "just use 24 bit" doesn't work because many of us have large sample libraries of 16 bit sounds. In fact, just yesterday I bought a new percussion VST and its included sounds are 16 bit. I can't process them in Audition without adding unwanted dithering.

 

To give an idea of how serious this is -- imagine an audio engineer working on a 16 track song where the client recorded at 16bit. If that audio engineer uses Audition for batch processing those tracks --- it will bump up the noise floor from no-noise-at-all to -66.2 dB, which you can hear.

 

And if it's a 32 track song? -60.1 dB.

64 track song? -54.1 dB --- that's getting really loud.

128 track song? Now you're looking at -48 dB of white noise...

 

Keep in mind that's before applying any additional distortion, compression, limiting, etc. to the mix. That's a LOT of noise that will only get worse.

 

And to make matters worse, in many conditions -- if you open, edit, save, and close 16 bit files multiple times? Audition will multiply the dither noise.

 

Contrary to popular belief, a lof of people still record at 16 bit and a lot of sample libraries are 16 bit. A lot of game audio is 16 bit, too! And even if a person prefers 24 bit, that doesn't mean your clients do...!

 

So given the destructive nature of this bug, I would think Adobe would treat it with some priority.  Also, in the world of bugs I bet this one wouldn't be terribly hard to figure out... It's reproducible to begin with, and it appears to happen at the point of save.

 

PS. For any devs who look into this, remember to set your meter to -120dB (or at least -96dB) or else the dither noise isn't going to register.

mj89683611
mj89683611
Participant
July 20, 2024

Yeah, last I mentioned it, it was dismissed as not reproducible. And yet, when performing surgery on 16-bit files—e.g., loading two damaged files and then copying an undamaged part of one and pasting over a damaged part of the other—I still have to do odd things to avoid getting dithered output on the edited section: I must either convert the working copy to 32-bit (Shift+T) before saving as 16-bit without dither, or save the working copy as 16-bit with dither.

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