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Quantum88
Known Participant
January 1, 2023
Question

My edits vanished from Wave

  • January 1, 2023
  • 1 reply
  • 410 views

hi 

I started with Audition literally few days ago, unfortunately in a middle of an urgent audio project, and so have been on a steep learning curve 12 hrs a day, learning from various videos on YouTube whatever I could find, as it appears that there is no comprehensive sequential video manual produced by Adobe. (is there?)

Those videos have been very helpful - except that I was finding important information after I had already recorded the audios, so had (and still do) to re-record everything several times.

Anyway, I guess that's part of the growing pains, so I have already resigned to the delay in the release of my product.

However what happened just now is NOT what I am happy to deal with, and so I'd like to ask you whether this is a known bug, or potentially I did something wrong.

I was doing some final edits - re-recorded parts of the audio, some in place of the original, some bits were at the end of the track.I don;t remember if I saved them, but I had already got into a habit of saving manually every few minutes.

Then I decided that I was not happy with some effects (noise reduction, EQ) as they changed my voice too much, and while I know that Wave edits are destructive (I totally forgot to dulicate the original file for mastering), I looked in the History panel to see if I could reverse any of those effects.(if not - what's the purpose of History if you can't do anything with it?)

I didn't make any changes there, but when I went back to my track - to my shock and horror I saw that those edits had vanished! Both from Wave and Multitrack!

I mean - How can I master my audio if "occassionally" my edits are not saved?  Is this a known BUG??

Is there a solution?

 

Secondly, I noticed that sometimes my voice sounds differently in Multitrack than in Wave. Is it possible? 

 

Also, after I inserted the voice from Wave into the Multitrack, and then went back to Wave to make additional edits - are those changes automatically reflected in the Multitrack view, or do I need to insert the clip again?

 

I love Audition, it's a huge step up from my previous DAW and so much easier and effective to work with, but I can't afford having my edits simply vanishing without a trace!

 

Are there comprehensive and detailed Adobe video tutorials on all its functions and critical production points?

 

I have re-recorded everything (7 parts) twice already, now I have to do it all over again. My project is already one week late.

 

I would be grateful for your thoughts., tips and advice. Thanks!

This topic has been closed for replies.

1 reply

SteveG_AudioMasters_
Community Expert
SteveG_AudioMasters_Community Expert
Community Expert
January 1, 2023

I'm afraid that 'bugs' at this level are invariably operator bugs, not software ones. Audition (and its predecessor, Cool Edit) has worked the way it has for almost a quarter of a centuary now.

 

There are some basic things you need to be aware of when operating in Waveform view, especially if you are recording in it (not a good idea). The most important point is that you are not recording directly to your final file, but to a temporary file. Nothing you do is safe until you've saved that. But if you record something and make any changes before you save it (perfectly possible of course) those changes become permanent, and it's not possible to undo anything after the save. Same thing happens if you re-open a file and make changes to it. Each time you make a change it's possible to  undo that, because the temp file gets updated (actually replaced, but the old one is kept, up to the level of undos you have specified) but once again, saving your work will remove the ability to undo anything.

 

If it didn't work like this, your temp space would become completely overwhelmed in no time. So you have to choose what you do, and when you do it, carefully. Thrashing about all over the place and changing things semi-randomly is almost bound to lead to the sort of difficulties you are experiencing, I'm afraid. The safest way to work in Waveform view is to do a save deliberately at every change you make, including what that step was. Then you always have something to go back to, and if all else fails, please note carefully the next paragraph...

 

Rule 1 of recording and editing in Waveform view is very simple. When you've made a recording, you save it - twice. You save the original recording, and that becomes your safety copy, and you save it again using Save As (append 'edit' to the title) and that's the one you use for editing. This way, when you screw something up, you have the original to go back to.

 

Things that are better to do - record in Multitrack view. This is better, because your file is written direct to disk in the first place, and even if something fails during it, it can usually be rescued. Ideally you should still save it twice though, and work with the copy. The reason for this (and it's probably where your problems stem from) is that even if you put a file onto a non-destructive Multitrack track, double-clicking on it will promptly open it in Waveform view, at which point your precious file is in a destructive environment. Generally if you are about to do something silly (like cut out bits that are already used in your session) you will be warned about this - unless you'd dismissed all warnings, which is another thing you shouldn't do.

 

Is there no comprehensive manual? No there isn't - Adobe decided years ago that this was prohibitively expensive, and would invariably go out of date. So there's the 'help' system, which admittedly can be a little cryptic, but there's a reason for this too. We are talking about what amounts to a commercial product here, generally used by industry professionals, and they simply don't want their hands held - they just want the basic info. I'm not saying this to be patronising; it's just the way it is. For everybody else, there's this forum, where generally I, and a handful of others, will attemt to explain things in a manner that posters will be able to work with.

 

Generally it's better to ask single questions here - they are much easier to answer than complex ones with a load of issues in them, as a rule, and much more likely to get a quicker response. You've been a bit lucky with this one! 😉

    Q
    Quantum88Author
    Known Participant
    January 2, 2023

    Hi SteveG, many thanks for your reply.

    The problem with the user guide being left to the users to create online is that not everyone provides the same advice, which is terribly confusing to a newbe.  Of course, one can learn anything by trial and error, except that this takes a lot of time which at this point I don't have.

     

    I've been working for many years with Audacity on commercial and non-commercial projects, so I do know the basics of audio editing. However Audition is a very different and much more sophosticated environment, and so with the limited time I have I am looking for step by step instructions I can quickly follow to finish my current project (and then spend more time exploring and learning the nuances of Audition).

     

    For example, after watching 12+ "tutorial" videos, this is for the first time I hear that I should record in the Multitrack not Wave, as the first message I got was - record to Wave as it is much easier and quicker to master wth effects etc, which sounds plausible. Yes, I got the point that Wave is a destructive file while Multitrack is not, I just forgot to create a copy of my original in the infromation overload 🙂

     

    I didn't try to make additional changes all over the place 🙂  I was happy with the result in Wave but then when I listened to it in Multitrack, my voice sounded different (more distorted, as if the effects applied were amplified) so I wanted to go back and revert the EQ changes I made in Wave.

     

    yes, I will keep in my mind to keep one question per post, thanks 🙂

    So here is my multilayer 🙂 question around the difference in voice recording in Waveform vs Multitrack:

     

    I work very fast when editing, often cutting out and pasting bits of audio including silence or room noise. This can be done easily and quickly in Waveform but is more involved in Multiltitrack and takes more time.(not to mention that it's frightening to see my clip being split when I make a cut! LOL)

     

    Waveform - click in the clip - cut/paste - done (1 sec)

    Multitrack - click in the clip - cut - move the spliced parts together making sure they don't overlap - select both - right click - merge clips - done (6+ sec)

    That extends my workflow six-fold (in seconds), at least.

     

    I also understand that not all effects and mastering tools are available in both views.

     

    Given this, could you advise please how voice recording in Multitrack is more efficient (apart from being a non-destructive file) and whether all effects and tools are available there?  This also begs the question - if that's the case, what is the purpose of the Waveform view anyway?

     

    If you know some good videos explaining this in detail, I would be grateful for the link. thanks! 🙂

     

     

     

    SteveG_AudioMasters_
    Community Expert
    SteveG_AudioMasters_Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 2, 2023

    A lot of tutorial videos have mistakes in them. Trouble is, by the time you realise what's wrong, you don't need the videos any more anyway. The advice about recording in Waveform view is completely out of date. I think it happens because most of these videos just copy the same ideas from other ones without even thinking about whether what they're saying makes any sense at all. By and large, I don't recommend any videos except the official Adobe ones; Check out Jason Levine - he's been doing this almost forever and is very listenable to. Ultimately though, you learn things best by actually doing them and making mistakes. If they turn out to be big expensive mistakes, then you generally don't make them again...

     

    Is recording in Multitrack more efficient? Don't know whether that would be the word I chose. It's certainly safer though - there have been any number of instances of people losing long recordings because of temp file crashes. Also, if your system does crash during a recording, there's a good chance that you can recover everything up to that point - no chance of doing that in Waveform view. It's more risky anyway; you are effectively having to store everything twice, once into the temp file (where it's vulnerable) and then again when you store it permanently.

     

    You asked why Waveform view is there at all - well that's quite simple: It's the only way you can trim files to length (you can't do that after you've mixed down a Multitrack file) and it's the only way you can apply process-based effects. Not only that, but it's the system you have to use to create or break up multi-channel files; you can't do this easily in Multitrack at all. And it's the only place you can do batch processing of files, or indeed anything that requires them to be scanned first.

     

    If you practice, you can get just as fast editing in Multitrack, and it's way more flexible in terms of being able to rearrange component parts than Waveform ever could be. You mentioned room noise - in Multitrack you can loop it without having to go through lengthy cut and paste routines; that's definitely quicker. And I have no idea why you are merging clips - I've never bothered with that.

     

    You have to get out of the way of thinking that says a split in multitrack is doing damage to your file! It's not touching it in the slightest. You have to remember  that Multitrack is just a selective playback machine where you can apply all sorts of effects easily, because that's pretty much all it is. Damage can only occur when your file gets opened in Waveform view. The only thing that you can do directly with files in Multitrack is record them (or convert them to unique copies which it will ask you to save) - neither of these is destructive in any way. The other thing you can do in Multitrack is better drop-ins, if that's how you record (some people do, but it's not obligatory). It's better because you can stack up multiple takes if you want to.

     

    Multitrack only sounds different from Waveform view either if you add effects to a track, or because the playback levels are different. Other than that, the results are sample-identical. The basic rule about Multitrack and files is that you do things to clean up tracks in Waveform view (Noise reduction, click removal) as processes first, and then do your actual edit in Multitrack. That's the way that its originator intended it to be used, FWIW.

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