Inspiring

Question

Should I use Coldfusion?

Forum|Forum|18 years ago
June 10, 2007
66 replies
8796 views

Hi I am getting ready to create a large web site. I am still contemplating whether or not to use Coldfusion over another language.

Over the weekend, I've been reading the info on CF on the main web site and other article about Coldfusion's benefit over other languages as I have to make a decision soon.

I just am still unsure. I'm worried about finding the support I need if I get into trouble with coding or if I want to try implementing something interesting. With ASP I usually could ask around and I'll get a pretty quick response about what I need to do.

Getting started

This topic has been closed for replies.

Show previous replies

tclaremont

Inspiring

From what I gather, he is of the opinion that his passive-agressive, tough-love rhetoric is going to persuade Adobe to give CF away for free and build his idea of an IDE. Based on this philosophy, he thinks he is doing the CF community a favor by pointing out his theories. He can't do that if he leaves.

And, by creating over 25 aliases with the same three arguments, he thinks that his points will appear more justified and popular than they really are. He even posts from the same IP under different names in the same freakin' conversation!

He does not hate CF. He hates the fact that his skills are not at the point where he can find work using CF in Austraiia. If CF were to "come up to speed", he could find a job based on his alleged experience with CF. That way the time and effort he has invested in learning CF would not feel 'wasted' to him.

Anonymous

I sometimes wonder where the CF griefers come from. Their arguments are all very similar and all very thin.

No reliable CF hosting? really? A quick google search for "coldfusion hosting" (quoted) returns 284k results. Within the fist 10 results are the three hosts I mentioned earlier. Yet somehow, Campag claims that you really need to spend time trying to find a CF host. Where are you looking dude, Alta Vista????? Try the google, it seems to work well.

"ROR is more RAD" How do you make this comparison? By what benchmark? Tell you what, lets compare the number of ROR jobs to the number of CF jobs available...CF wins hands down.

If you hate CF some much, then just go away...why are you hanging out on a CF forum anyway?!?!?

tclaremont

Inspiring

Criminy! How many hosts do you need to choose from? It is not like there are one or two. There are hundreds of CF hosts out there. I cannot argue that there are more hosts that support other platforms, but at what point does this become an argument of diminishing returns? If you are turned off by the fact that there are *only* a few hundred CF hosts then you have your head stuck somewhere.

The MySpace scenario is so far removed from most of the development in the world that it shows more of a naivitae in your analytical skills than anything else. I think most of us on this board would readilly admit that a project the size of MySpace is very close to unique. Further, without knowing the talent and skill of the developers of MySpace, it is foolish to assume that another set of programmers could not succeed with an implementation of ColdFusion. I would be completely remiss if I was approached by a customer wanting an intranet and I responded with "MySpace ditched it, so I am sure it is not right for you". If you are so convinced, why not call up BankOfAmerica and tell them how irresponsible they are for using CF.

Since CF is a tool, you can't just look at what an unknown programmer has achieved and use that as a basis for what CF is capable of. There are plenty of poorly constructed houses in the world. That does not make it responsible or logical to boycott hammers.

lovewebdevAuthor

Inspiring

quote:

Originally posted by: tclaremont
The MySpace scenario is so far removed from most of the development in the world that it shows more of a naivitae in your analytical skills than anything else.

I'm not agreeing with Campag, persay as I am very interested in CF, but there is a point about MySpace still. They're opting to switch everything over to .NET, while they could have easily afforded to hire the appropriate CF programmers to do the job. It's even more odd because staying with CF would've saved them time and money especially because the site was already in CF.

I'm not sure what .NET has to offer that CF doesn't for MySpace, but I think it is relevant to mention since it's mentioned on Forta's site (Forta.com) that Myspace uses CF in support of CF.

CAVEAT:
However, I don't think it's fair to make the technology behind MySpace the end all and be all argument for or against CF. Not to mention there may have very well been CORPORATE $$$$, beaurocratical reasons as to why they're switching everything to ASP.NET. I mean it's owned by the parent company of FOX for crying out loud.

It was originally developed by a college student and it is in fact very sloppily designed in my opinion.

Newsgroup_User

Inspiring

re; If you cant find one, then you aren't really looking.

Sadly, with cf, you need to look closely as there are not even a fraction of
teh number of hosts as there are for other web dev platforms. One of teh CF
Achilles Heel's actually.

"tclaremont" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:f4mfgj$3mb$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> If you cant find one, then you aren't really looking.
>
> Ditching a language that you claim to like and have invested time in seems
> completely bizzarre just because you cant be bothered to find even one of
> the
> myriad web hosts that support CF.
>
> It appears that exerting effort is not your game, but it seems it would
> take
> less effort to check out the three web hosts mentioned above than it would
> to
> rewite an entire site.
>

Newsgroup_User

Inspiring

re: then the "time to market" is likely to be FAR quicker than
if you tried to pick up something other than CF and put it to the task.

Ruby On Rails is the faster way to go if time to market is a concern. It is
undeniably more RAD than cf. CF requires hand coding fo e=prtty much all
things, whereas Ruby on Rails will take care of much plumbing for you and
leave you to focus on logic. Asp.Net will be faaster too - but some coding
expereince required here however.

re: > On the other hand, if you are poised to learn a new language

If so, the CF is not the smart choice as demand in nowhere near as highy as
with other skills. CF is niche these days

"tclaremont" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:f4k7br$7p8$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> If your only tool is a hammer, then every problem starts to look like a
> nail.
>
> Loosely translated, you will need to learn at least a modicum of
> information
> about several tools in order to choose which one is right for your job. If
> you
> only know one tool, then you really only have one option.
>
> If you are about to embark on a new project, and you know that little
> about
> CF, then I would have to say that this is either a very long range
> project, or
> you are stuck with ASP.
>
> On the other hand, if you are poised to learn a new language and have
> included
> that in your plan, then the "time to market" is likely to be FAR quicker
> than
> if you tried to pick up something other than CF and put it to the task.
>

tclaremont

Inspiring

If you cant find one, then you aren't really looking.

Ditching a language that you claim to like and have invested time in seems completely bizzarre just because you cant be bothered to find even one of the myriad web hosts that support CF.

It appears that exerting effort is not your game, but it seems it would take less effort to check out the three web hosts mentioned above than it would to rewite an entire site.

Anonymous

dpiz:
I'm surprised you haven't been able to find a reliable host. Crystaltech, Hostmysite, and Intermedia.net are all very reputable CF hosts.

craigkaminsky

Inspiring

dpiz:
There are many excellent CFML hosts out there. cfdynamics and hostmysite seem to be the most talked about hosts and leaders in this area. i've worked most with hostmysite and they have plenty of affordable CFMX options on Linux, IIS, Virtual Private Servers and Dedicated servers (listed in order of least expensive to most) and excellent technical support. Also, with both cydynamics and hostmysite, you do not have to pay for CF, as it is wrapped into your hosting fees.

lovewebdev:
CF is a great web development technology and is very quick and (I think) easy to learn, however, tclaremont makes an excellent point. If you have any sort of quick or tight turn-around time on this project, starting off in a new language could be very dangerous to the project's overall success. As approachable as ColdFusion is, there's a lot under the hood that takes some time to learn and utilize. That said, if you have time and inclination, I think CF is well worth learning.

In your decision-making process, I think you would be well-served to ignore the myriad posts arguing for and against CF's life-expectancy. They carry no real weight in how the future of CF, or any other programming language, plays out (and I am certainly guilty of engaging in such posts). The simple fact is this: right now, CF has a solid customer base, an active community of developers, and, oh yeah, one of the largest software companies in the world investing millions into it. If it's a dying language, it should be a pretty slow death.

Ultimately, I think the real question you need to answer is: do you like it? There are so many excellent options for web development, especially when you are comparing them to classic ASP. Continue to research your options and, in the end, pick the language/solution that you like working in the best. All the major web languages will get you where you want to go...some just make it a smoother ride.

Good luck!

tclaremont

Inspiring

If your only tool is a hammer, then every problem starts to look like a nail.

Loosely translated, you will need to learn at least a modicum of information about several tools in order to choose which one is right for your job. If you only know one tool, then you really only have one option.

If you are about to embark on a new project, and you know that little about CF, then I would have to say that this is either a very long range project, or you are stuck with ASP.

On the other hand, if you are poised to learn a new language and have included that in your plan, then the "time to market" is likely to be FAR quicker than if you tried to pick up something other than CF and put it to the task.

dpiz

Participant

Sorry to say this but NO. I have been using CF since 99 and I am now having to rewrite my entire site because I can't find reliable hosting. I have been looking for a solid two weeks. Even one of the hosts they list on the site doesn't offer CF hosting anymore because they can't find reliable tech support. It's a sad day for CF - I wish it weren't so - I loved using it, easy and fast. The price is also a bit ridiculous in my view - 1,300? Who is going to start using it at that price? I know I never would have. I see it dying off and it's a shame.

ThreeRavens

Known Participant

quote:

Originally posted by: dpiz
Sorry to say this but NO. I have been using CF since 99 and I am now having to rewrite my entire site because I can't find reliable hosting. I have been looking for a solid two weeks. Even one of the hosts they list on the site doesn't offer CF hosting anymore because they can't find reliable tech support. It's a sad day for CF - I wish it weren't so - I loved using it, easy and fast. The price is also a bit ridiculous in my view - 1,300? Who is going to start using it at that price? I know I never would have. I see it dying off and it's a shame.

Thgere are quite a few reliable and affordable CF hosts out there. I am partnered with one...sunshinetechsolutions.com, which will be offering CF8 when it becomes availible.

As far as CF not being popular, dying, not supported, and similar rubbish...as someone posted above, check out forta.com and look at the list of companies that use CF. It's not a small list at all. Big companies like AT&T, American Medical Association, FitchRatings, Boeing, most of the US Governement to include the Senate, etc... use it. I have been programming with CF since 1998 and have never looked back.

What makes CF cost effective is it's functionality right out of the box. Ben Forta wrote an article years ago comparing CF and ASP and what it would take to get ASP to the same functional level as CF out of the box. He estimated that with either development costs or purchase costs for buy modules for ASP..it would cost approximately $36k to get ASP to the same functional level. Your expereince with cfquery is a good example. Imagine a page with several queries and then having ot output those queries so a user can see the results. Using CF you would be headed to the coffee shop a long time before the ASP guy would be ;-)

Books: Any book after CF5 would still be relevant for the most part. The big change and the big point where a lot of apps broke was between 4.5 and 5 due to the change from a c++ based rendereing engine to the current JRUN Java based engine. This also enable us to access java libraries and to wriote java code into our cf code. A great example of this is the POI libraries used in CF's reporting. This allows us to create office docs on the fly (programatically) and modify them as well, without the need to have MS Office on the server. It's also WAY faster and less resorce intensive that calling a COM objec to do the same task. But I digress... The best book is, as mentioned above, CFWACK. It is authored by Ben Forta, Ray Camden and several others who some of the most knowledgeable people in the CF world. The Mastering books and O'Rielly books(which for everything else put out some damn good books) pale in comparison...which is a big reason why there isn't a big market for CF books. Most people get CFWACK and the Advance CF book...and that is pretty much all they need.

I think the biggest negative about CF is the fact that niether Allaire (the company that originally developed it) or Macromedia did any meaningful marketing (something I hope that Adobe will correct *poke...prod*), so CF has this image of not being popular or dying. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have been part of the beta team for Scorpio (CF8) and let me just say that some of the new features rock. CF has been around for 12 years (ASP has come and gone in that time span BTW). It continues to march forward and evolve...its a very mature product. If you really want to go whole hog and get immersed in CF...take one of the classes. I am not sure of the name, but the one that will get up up to speed is Fast Track to CF (or at least that is what they called it 10 years ago heheh). It's a 3 day class that, when you are finished, you will be well eqiped to start writing some complex apps using CF.

Another good web resource for getting CF help...go to http://www.houseoffusion.com and join the CF-Talk list. Many of the heavy hitters of CF are there. Ben Forta and Ray Camden are regulars there. The folks are very helpful and you will find it to be a great resource when you are in a jam.

If you need any help...feel free to drop me an email.

Blessings to all!
Eric Roberts
Owner/ColdFusion Developer
Three Ravens Consulting
http://www.threeravensconsulting.com

BKBK

Community Expert

Topic Title: Should I use Coldfusion?

Hi I am getting ready to create a large web site. I am still contemplating whether or not to use Coldfusion over another language.

Over the weekend, I've been reading the info on CF on the main web site and other article about Coldfusion's benefit over other languages as I have to make a decision soon.
... etc., etc.

Your question would make more sense when you replace every occurrence of the word use with the word learn. You apparently don't know much Coldfusion. You therefore cannot yet make an informed decision on it.

lovewebdevAuthor

Inspiring

quote:

Originally posted by: BKBK
Topic Title: Should I use Coldfusion?

Hi I am getting ready to create a large web site. I am still contemplating whether or not to use Coldfusion over another language.
Over the weekend, I've been reading the info on CF on the main web site and other article about Coldfusion's benefit over other languages as I have to make a decision soon.
... etc., etc.

Your question would make more sense when you replace every occurrence of the word use with the word learn. You apparently don't know much Coldfusion. You therefore cannot yet make an informed decision on it.

Yes you are absolutely correct. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I'd be learning Coldfusion while simulataneously creating the site using coldfusion over learning ASP.NET (or PHP, etc.) while simulataneously creating the site using ASP.NET.

I have a fairly extensive web development background with classic ASP (which is becoming obsolete).

Hence, I would like to invest my time and knowledge in the most efficient manner, which is why I'm seeking advice about pursuing CF over ASP.NET in terms of both time spent learning and time spent building web applications.

I hope that's clearer.

Show more replies

Sign up

To post, reply, or follow discussions, please sign in with your Adobe ID.

Sign in to Adobe Community

To post, reply, or follow discussions, please sign in with your Adobe ID.

Scanning file for viruses.

This file cannot be downloaded