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_Haykel_Ben_Jemia_
Known Participant
August 22, 2008
Question

Flex 4 and BiDi Components

  • August 22, 2008
  • 18 replies
  • 2708 views
Hi,

just wanted to ask if the Flex 4 components will be BiDi-aware so that a developer can set a property on a component or the application to make it render from right to left. For example a DataGrid, when set to RTL (i.e. by setting its "direction" property to "rtl") will start the columns from the right. Another example are horizontal layouts which would lay components from right to left when the application (global) direction is set to RTL.

Bye,
Haykel
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_GordonSmith_
Participating Frequently
September 9, 2008
<div class=Section1><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal>&gt; We hope to implement UI &quot;mirroring&quot; to get<br />RTL layout in all components. But that work hasn't started yet. <o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal>Still true. This work is on our schedule for Flex 4. There<br />is no spec for mirroring yet.<o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal>Gordon Smith<o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal>Adobe Flex SDK Team<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:<br />"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";<br />color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><br /><br /><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span<br />style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Leif Wells Atlanta<br />[mailto:member@adobeforums.com] <br><br /><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 09, 2008 1:31 PM<br><br /><b>To:</b> flexsdk-dev@adobeforums.com<br><br /><b>Subject:</b> Re: Flex 4 and BiDi Components<o:p></o:p></span></p><br /><br /></div><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal>A new message was posted by Leif Wells Atlanta in <br><br /><br><br /><b>Developers</b> --<br><br />  Flex 4 and BiDi Components<br><br /><br><br />Haykel, I am sorry to ask but where did you get that &quot;Gordon said:&quot;<br />quote from?<br><br />I am not seeing it in my thread. Is that from the Bug Base?<br><br />If this is true and there are plans around this that I have not seen, then<br />great! I am excited! <br><br />Leif<br><br /><br><br />On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Haykel Ben Jemia &lt;<a<br />href="mailto:member@adobeforums.com">member@adobeforums.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal>A new message was posted by Haykel Ben Jemia in <br><br /><br><br /><b>Developers</b> --<br><br />  Flex 4 and BiDi Components<br><br /><br><br />In my understanding the situation looks like the following: <o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:Symbol'>&middot;</span>  BiDi text will be<br />implemented in Flash 10/Flex 4 (It's already on SVN) <o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:Symbol'>&middot;</span> <br />BiDi components/layouts will &quot;hopefully&quot; be implemented through UI<br />&quot;mirroring&quot;<br><br /><br><br />Gordon said: <br><br />--- <br><br />We hope to implement UI &quot;mirroring&quot; to get RTL layout in all<br />components. (For example, in a Tree the disclosure triangles would be on the<br />right, and the vertical scrollbar on the left. In an HBox the first child would<br />be on the right and the last on the left. Etc.) But that work hasn't started<br />yet. <br><br />--- <br><br /><br><br />In the other hand, it's relatively easy now with the new layout & skinning<br />engines of Flex 4 to implement such components. <br><br /><br><br />I think BiDi support is on the way, it's just a matter of time (not so much<br />hopefully). <br><br /><br><br />Haykel <o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /><div class=MsoNormal><br /><br /><hr size=2 width=200 style='width:150.0pt' align=left><br /><br /></div><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>View/reply at <a<br />href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b63e11/5" target="_blank">Flex 4<br />and BiDi Components</a><br><br />Replies by email are OK.<br><br />Use the <a<br />href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b63e11!folder=.3c060fa3"<br />target="_blank">unsubscribe</a> form to cancel your email subscription.<o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br /><br><br /><o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /><div class=MsoNormal><br /><br /><hr size=2 width=200 style='width:150.0pt' align=left><br /><br /></div><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>View/reply at <a<br />href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b63e11/6">Flex 4 and BiDi<br />Components</a><br><br />Replies by email are OK.<br><br />Use the <a<br />href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b63e11!folder=.3c060fa3">unsubscribe</a><br />form to cancel your email subscription.<o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /></div>
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Leif_Wells_-_Atlanta
Participating Frequently
September 9, 2008
Haykel, I am sorry to ask but where did you get that "Gordon said:" quote from?

I am not seeing it in my thread. Is that from the Bug Base?

If this is true and there are plans around this that I have not seen, then great! I am excited!


Leif

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Haykel Ben Jemia < member@adobeforums.com> wrote:

A new message was posted by Haykel Ben Jemia in



Developers --

  Flex 4 and BiDi Components



In my understanding the situation looks like the following:
  • BiDi text will be implemented in Flash 10/Flex 4 (It's already on SVN)
  • BiDi components/layouts will "hopefully" be implemented through UI "mirroring"


    Gordon said:

    ---

    We hope to implement UI "mirroring" to get RTL layout in all components. (For example, in a Tree the disclosure triangles would be on the right, and the vertical scrollbar on the left. In an HBox the first child would be on the right and the last on the left. Etc.) But that work hasn't started yet.


    ---

    In the other hand, it's relatively easy now with the new layout & skinning engines of Flex 4 to implement such components.

    I think BiDi support is on the way, it's just a matter of time (not so much hopefully).


    Haykel




    View/reply at Flex 4 and BiDi Components

    Replies by email are OK.

    Use the unsubscribe form to cancel your email subscription.



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_Haykel_Ben_Jemia_Author
Known Participant
September 9, 2008
In my understanding the situation looks like the following:
* BiDi text will be implemented in Flash 10/Flex 4 (It's already on SVN)
* BiDi components/layouts will "hopefully" be implemented through UI "mirroring"

Gordon said:
---
We hope to implement UI "mirroring" to get RTL layout in all components. (For example, in a Tree the disclosure triangles would be on the right, and the vertical scrollbar on the left. In an HBox the first child would be on the right and the last on the left. Etc.) But that work hasn't started yet.
---

In the other hand, it's relatively easy now with the new layout & skinning engines of Flex 4 to implement such components.

I think BiDi support is on the way, it's just a matter of time (not so much hopefully).

Haykel
L
Leif_Wells_-_Atlanta
Participating Frequently
September 9, 2008
Thanks for sharing this, Ahmad. When I have time later this week I will explore your code fully. I am doing a lot of writing about localization but must admit that I am a little behind the times when it comes to the new BiDi features.


I've been discussing problems like these with a lot of people. It would not make a lot of sense to me for the Flash Player to support BiDi text and the Flex SDK not have some way to automatically support things like form mirroring. I wonder if we will have to do a lot more work to fully support Globalization in our applications? We need BiDi and Globalization to be established within the SDK in a way that makes switching languages at least as easy as it is today with non-BiDi languages.


Can someone from the Adobe Flex SDK team *briefly* reveal the plans in this area? I realize you guys are really busy with deadlines right now, but if there needs to be some development from public sources to organize around getting the SDK to fully support BiDi and everything that BiDi brings with it, then it would be better to know now.


What is the plan?

Ahmad, since you obviously understand what is going on here, can you create a list of features you feel must be supported in the SDK for everyone to see here? I think it might be helpful for this discussion (especially since I am a typical American who doesn't know a lot about the programatic challenges of BiDi languages).


Leif
Atlanta


On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 7:32 AM, Ahmad Eldardiry < member@adobeforums.com> wrote:

A new message was posted by Ahmad Eldardiry in



Developers --

  Flex 4 and BiDi Components



I had to make some work arounds to make TextArea and list components display the scrollbar on the left and move the internal UITextField / IUITextField to the right, to make the right-to-left effect. You can see examples here:


http://www.arabicode.com/en/flaraby/as3/flex/examples.php

Thank you




View/reply at Flex 4 and BiDi Components

Replies by email are OK.

Use the unsubscribe form to cancel your email subscription.



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_Ahmad_Eldardiry_
Participant
September 9, 2008
I had to make some work arounds to make TextArea and list components display the scrollbar on the left and move the internal UITextField / IUITextField to the right, to make the right-to-left effect. You can see examples here:

http://www.arabicode.com/en/flaraby/as3/flex/examples.php

Thank you
_
_GordonSmith_
Participating Frequently
August 26, 2008
<div class=Section1><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:<br />10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>We hope to implement UI &quot;mirroring&quot;<br />to get RTL layout in all components. (For example, in a Tree the disclosure<br />triangles would be on the right, and the vertical scrollbar on the left. In an<br />HBox the first child would be on the right and the last on the left. Etc.) But that<br />work hasn't started yet.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:<br />10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:<br />10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Gordon Smith<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:<br />10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Adobe Flex SDK Team<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:<br />10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><div><br /><br /><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3<br />face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br /><br /><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1><br /><br /></span></font></div><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;<br />font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2<br />face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName<br />w:st="on">Alex Harui</st1:PersonName> [mailto:member@adobeforums.com] <br><br /><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 26, 2008<br />8:06 AM<br><br /><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> flexsdk-dev@adobeforums.com<br><br /><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: Flex 4 and BiDi<br />Components</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /></div><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:<br />12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3<br />face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>A new message was posted<br />by <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Alex Harui</st1:PersonName> in <br><br /><br><br /><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Developers</span></b> --<br><br />  Flex 4 and BiDi Components<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font<br />size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;<br />color:navy'>Sorry, didn&#8217;t realize our product mgr was on vacation.<br /> I don&#8217;t know if we have an official statement, but IMHO, it is too<br />early for us to say how far we&#8217;ll get.  Third parties who have done<br />this kind of thing already say that it is a significant amount of work to get<br />all of the layout options correctly working.  We are concerned about<br />available resources, default SWF size and memory usage.  I&#8217;m pretty<br />confident that  text will be bi-di everywhere in Flex, then we&#8217;ll<br />see how far we get after that.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font<br />size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;<br />color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3<br />face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br /><br /><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1><br /><br /></span></font></div><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font<br />size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:<br />bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:<br />10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Haykel Ben Jemia [mailto:member@adobeforums.com] <br><br /><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 26, 2008<br />2:26 AM<br><br /><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> flexsdk-dev@adobeforums.com<br><br /><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Flex 4 and BiDi<br />Components</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font<br />size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font<br />size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>A new message was<br />posted by Haykel Ben Jemia in <br><br /><br><br /><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Developers</span></b> --<br><br />  Flex 4 and BiDi Components<br><br /><br><br />No response? Is my question too easy or too difficult? :) <br><br />Really this is very important for us as we are developing more and more Arabic<br />Flex applications! <br><br /><br><br />I know we can do much with skins and subclassing, especially with the new<br />layout engine. I did some tests and I developed a RTL horizontal layout class<br />that extends HorizontalLayout. It was damn easy!! But it would be nice if I<br />could just use a HorizontalLayout that changes direction according to the<br />application's setting and it would be nicer if we could get this feature in the<br />core libs! <br><br /><br><br />I'm willing to help with development and bug fixing but I think Adobe has<br />already the right skilled personnel for this, or not? :) <br><br /><br><br />Any comments? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><div class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span<br />style='font-size:12.0pt'><br /><br /><hr size=2 width=200 style='width:150.0pt' align=left><br /><br /></span></font></div><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font<br />size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>View/reply at <a<br />href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b63e11/0">Flex 4 and BiDi<br />Components</a><br><br />Replies by email are OK.<br><br />Use the <a<br />href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b63e11!folder=.3c060fa3">unsubscribe</a><br />form to cancel your email subscription.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3<br />face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><div class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span<br />style='font-size:12.0pt'><br /><br /><hr size=2 width=200 style='width:150.0pt' align=left><br /><br /></span></font></div><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3<br />face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>View/reply at <a<br />href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b63e11/1">Flex 4 and BiDi<br />Components</a><br><br />Replies by email are OK.<br><br />Use the <a<br />href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b63e11!folder=.3c060fa3">unsubscribe</a><br />form to cancel your email subscription.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /></div>
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_Alex_Harui_
Participating Frequently
August 26, 2008
<div class=Section1><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:<br />10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Sorry, didn&#8217;t realize our product<br />mgr was on vacation.  I don&#8217;t know if we have an official statement, but<br />IMHO, it is too early for us to say how far we&#8217;ll get.  Third parties who<br />have done this kind of thing already say that it is a significant amount of<br />work to get all of the layout options correctly working.  We are concerned<br />about available resources, default SWF size and memory usage.  I&#8217;m pretty<br />confident that  text will be bi-di everywhere in Flex, then we&#8217;ll see how<br />far we get after that.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:<br />10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><div><br /><br /><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3<br />face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br /><br /><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1><br /><br /></span></font></div><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;<br />font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2<br />face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Haykel Ben Jemia<br />[mailto:member@adobeforums.com] <br><br /><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 26, 2008<br />2:26 AM<br><br /><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">flexsdk-dev@adobeforums.com</st1:PersonName><br><br /><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Flex 4 and BiDi<br />Components</span></font><o:p></o:p></p><br /><br /></div><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:<br />12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3<br />face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>A new message was posted<br />by Haykel Ben Jemia in <br><br /><br><br /><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Developers</span></b> --<br><br />  Flex 4 and BiDi Components<br><br /><br><br />No response? Is my question too easy or too difficult? :) <br><br />Really this is very important for us as we are developing more and more Arabic<br />Flex applications! <br><br /><br><br />I know we can do much with skins and subclassing, especially with the new<br />layout engine. I did some tests and I developed a RTL horizontal layout class<br />that extends HorizontalLayout. It was damn easy!! But it would be nice if I<br />could just use a HorizontalLayout that changes direction according to the<br />application's setting and it would be nicer if we could get this feature in the<br />core libs! <br><br /><br><br />I'm willing to help with development and bug fixing but I think Adobe has<br />already the right skilled personnel for this, or not? :) <br><br /><br><br />Any comments? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /><div class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span<br />style='font-size:12.0pt'><br /><br /><hr size=2 width=200 style='width:150.0pt' align=left><br /><br /></span></font></div><br /><br /><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3<br />face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>View/reply at <a<br />href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?13@@.59b63e11/0">Flex 4 and BiDi<br />Components</a><br><br />Replies by email are OK.<br><br />Use the <a<br />href="http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?280@@.59b63e11!folder=.3c060fa3">unsubscribe</a><br />form to cancel your email subscription.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><br /><br /></div>
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_Haykel_Ben_Jemia_Author
Known Participant
August 26, 2008
No response? Is my question too easy or too difficult? :)
Really this is very important for us as we are developing more and more Arabic Flex applications!

I know we can do much with skins and subclassing, especially with the new layout engine. I did some tests and I developed a RTL horizontal layout class that extends HorizontalLayout. It was damn easy!! But it would be nice if I could just use a HorizontalLayout that changes direction according to the application's setting and it would be nicer if we could get this feature in the core libs!

I'm willing to help with development and bug fixing but I think Adobe has already the right skilled personnel for this, or not? :)

Any comments?
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