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Z
Zower
Known Participant
May 7, 2022
Resuelto

I need to provide a printer color-accurate (box design) - what is the industry standard please?

  • May 7, 2022
  • 3 respuestas
  • 1071 visualizaciones

Hello everyone,

I have been working for a electronics store for a while now and from time to time I am asked to design a box for a new product (very rarely like once or twice a year). What the working process usually is - we have die-cut file provided to us from the factory that manufactures the product we will be offering (.pdf or .ai file with thin line graphics) that I then design the wanted design into. 

Here comes the (for me) confusing part, I usually work with pro-photo, photoshop-edited pictures that at the end of the process once the design of the box is done and I am saving the files as editable .pdf I convert all the picture profiles to match CMYK color profile (Fogra 39 most of the time). But what I had happen to me once was the printed box file - when the boxes arrived and I was able to see it in person, had colors way-off from what I designed it as - I believe it had something to do with the printer being set to different color profile than the one I converted the pictures into? (Orange color looked more like brown, green lacked "shine" and looked more flat etc)

What steps should I as a designer of those print files take, so this does not happen in the future? I always thought there is some form of print-test before printing in bulk, but nothing like that seems to be the case for the projects I am working on, and all the pre-print testing is done on a computer (basically only checking if all the fonts are converted into outlines and all the pictures are embedded etc). 

Could this be avoided if I converted all the picture profiles to match sRGB? Since that is the color gamut profile that all the printers should be able to print? Or is my way of thinking wrong completely?

Thanks in advance for anyone that takes time to read thru and maybe possibly come up with some advice.

Sorry if something that I tried to explain does not make sense or the grammer is not correct since English is my secondary language.

Este tema ha sido cerrado para respuestas.
Mejor respuesta de davescm

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Use embedded profile when placing images

4. When exporting Convert to destination profile (Preserve numbers). That will preserve the CMYK elements that you created in the final profile and convert the RGB elements that you did not, to your destination CMYK profile

 

As an aside, I would create the image elements in Photoshop, create the graphical elements in Adobe Illustrator, assemble the final document and add any text in InDesign. Then Export from InDesign to PDF. These three applications work well together, and you would be using the strengths of each that way.

 

Dave

 

 

3 respuestas

Z
ZowerAutor
Known Participant
May 9, 2022

Thank you @Monika Gause @davescm it clarified some things for me. Appreciate your time spent helping me understand the process.

To sum things up, if my understanding is correct, the process should go as follows?

1) Working with photographs - I work with RAW photos - I do light edit in lightroom, then full edit, cutout on white background, retouch and all that in photoshop and save those files as .psd files in either ProPhoto or sRGB, in Photoshop I use the "Proof Colors" under "view" tab to see how my photo will look like under destination color profile (as mentioned above for example the Fogra 39)

2) Setting up the .Ai file color profile - I believe the .Ai file (die cut - outline of the box) should be set up to the printer CMYK color profile (I should ask the printer for this information)

3) Importing edited photographs into the .Ai file - when asked about if I want to keep the color profile of the photographs or convert it to the working profile of my .Ai document I should select "Keep as is"- do not convert and leave them with their own color profile that I edited them in the Photoshop with?

4) Save as a package with all the linked photographs and graphical elements and send the package to the printer for printing, when saving in .pdf I should convert all the color profiles that are within the project to match the color profile provided by the printer as their main printing color profile.

Is this correct please? Or am I messing something up?

davescm
Community Expert
davescmCommunity ExpertRespuesta
Community Expert
May 9, 2022

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Use embedded profile when placing images

4. When exporting Convert to destination profile (Preserve numbers). That will preserve the CMYK elements that you created in the final profile and convert the RGB elements that you did not, to your destination CMYK profile

 

As an aside, I would create the image elements in Photoshop, create the graphical elements in Adobe Illustrator, assemble the final document and add any text in InDesign. Then Export from InDesign to PDF. These three applications work well together, and you would be using the strengths of each that way.

 

Dave

 

 

    Z
    ZowerAutor
    Known Participant
    June 10, 2022

    Thanks a lot for swift replies and you time spent answering. I am glad you were able to help me understand the print process a bit more. Have a good one.

    davescm
    Community Expert
    davescmCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    May 7, 2022

    You seem do be working correctly with profiled screens and using colour management but there are still a couple of things to check.

    CMYK printers cannot reproduce all sRGB colours. No combination of CMYK on paper is going to print the brightest RGB colours. Reflected light on paper and a backlit colour screen have different gamuts. This applies to photographs as well as graphical elements but is much more noticable in large graphical areas. So if you use for example sRGB 255,0,0 (the brightest most vivid sRGB red) then it will not be reproduced in CMYK and will look extremely disappointing.

     

    So first ensure your box graphical colours are within the gamut of the CMYK profile. For photographs, use the proof colours view when converting and be prepared to adjust your image to control the out of gamut (i.e. unreproducable) colours. Finally, ensure that Fogra39 is indeed the correct profile for the particular press (check with the printer).

     

    Dave

    Monika Gause
    Community Expert
    Monika GauseCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    May 7, 2022

    Your color management needs to be set up correctly.

     

    It's of course important that the photos all have the correct color profile attached, which is something the photographer is responsible for. When opening and/or placing the photos, don't throw away the profile. But you can check as well, if the color seems logical to you. If something looks off when checking the colors, contact the photographer and ask them.

     

    But then before setting up the packaging design, contact the printer and ask them about the profiles you should use for them.

     

    Which is your mother tongue? Just in case it's German, there is excellent tutorial stuff available about color management for free.

    Z
    ZowerAutor
    Known Participant
    May 7, 2022

    @Monika Gause Thank you for reply.

    I myself am a photographer that is responsible for the pictures and as a side job I do design stuff. So I am taking the photos, editing them and then using them for designing the box. The colors always seem logical to me - the design I send out to the printer are as I want them to be (in a computer on a calibrated screen). The point was they printed out way different than they looked on screen. So I thought by following the right process of I guess color management I could eliminate this confusion I am having about what the right process of working with the printer company is.

    So when importing the pictures into my project I should use the attached picture profiles from photoshop, and then convert the whole project´s colors to whatever the printer color profile they work with?

    Appreciate the help.

    I am Czech btw.

    Monika Gause
    Community Expert
    Monika GauseCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    May 7, 2022

    The process is that you keep the profiles with the photos (which should be linked in the Illustrator project) and have it all converted when saving out the PDF.

     

    As long as in the PDF there is the desired color (measure this with the prepress panels in Acrobat), the handling of photos on your side was correct.

     

    What might not have been correct was either the output profile you used or the handling of stuff on the printer's side (as davescm already wrote). So checking the specifications with the printer before starting the project is always a good thing to do. There is no general color profile that will always work, because it very much depends on the machine, the stock, the inks used, etc. Only the printer knows these things.

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