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_Peter_Mars_
Participating Frequently
October 31, 2007
Question

Photoshop CS3 color management "Save for Web" problem

  • October 31, 2007
  • 680 replies
  • 62091 views
This problem is getting the best of me.......

After spending 3 full days researching this problem, I am no closer to finding an answer than when I started. I still cannot produce a usable image through the "Save for Web" feature of Photoshop CS3. I have read web page after web page of "Tips, Tricks and Recommendations" from dozens of experts, some from this forum, and still I have no solution... I am exhausted and frustrated to say the least. Here's the simple facts that I know at this point.

I have a web design project that was started in PS CS1. All artwork was created in photoshop and exported to JPG format by using "Save for Web". Every image displays correctly in these browsers (Safari, Camino, FireFox and even Internet Explorer on a PC).

I have recently upgraded to PS CS3 and now cannot get any newly JPG'd image to display correctly. My original settings in CS1 were of no concern to me at the time, because it always just worked, and so I do not know what they were. I have opened a few of my previous images in CS3 and found that sRGB-2.1 displays them more or less accurately. I am using sRGB 2.1 working space. Upon openning these previous image files, I get the "Missing Profile" message and of course I select "Leave as is. Do Not color manage". CS3 assumes sRGB-2.1 working space, opens the file, and all is well.

The problem is when I go to "Save for Web", the saturation goes up, and the colors change. The opposite of what most people are reporting. Here's another important point... new artwork created in CS3 does exactly the same thing, so it's not because of the older CS1 files.

I have tried every combination of "uncompensated color", "Convert to sRGB", "ICC Profile", etc. while saving. I have Converted to sRGB before saving, and my monitor is calibrated correctly.
I have tried setting the "Save for Web" page on 2-up and the "original" on the left is already color shifted before I even hit the "Save" button. Of course, the "Optimized" image on the right looks perfect because I am cheating by selecting the "Use Document Color Profile" item. Why do they even have this feature if doesn't work, or misleads you?

Does anyone have any ideas what could be happening here? Why is this all so screwed up?
CS1 worked fine out of the box.

Final note: I do have an image file I could send along that demonstrates how it is possible to display an image exactly the same in all 4 of the browsers I mentioned with no color differences. It is untagged RGB and somehow it just works.

I am very frustrated with all of this and any suggestions will be appreciated

Thanks,
Pete
    This topic has been closed for replies.

    680 replies

    Show previous replies
    A
    Anonymous
    December 3, 2007
    I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're talking about converting between profiles, or viewing within colour managed applications. I am talking about sRGB images being displayed in non-colour managed environments on monitors that display wider gamut than sRGB. As far as I know, the SFW preview window is showing a non-colour managed preview.

    As you know, a colour value - say r255 b12 g25 - is one colour in sRGB and a similar but different colour in Adobe RGB or other different colour spaces. So a colour managed environment recognizes how that colour value should appear, but without colour management, that colour gets mapped to the display profile. Thus, an sRGB image viewed on a wide-gamut monitor without colour management will not appear correctly. The wide-gamut monitor may be perfectly calibrated, but if there's no colour management, it will not know the correct way to display the image.

    Does this sound right?
    _
    _Mike_Ornellas_
    Participating Frequently
    December 3, 2007
    yes

    If the image color space has a smaller color gamut then the monitor, there "should be" no perceptual defects between what color space the image is in and what the monitor is showing you.
    A
    Anonymous
    December 3, 2007
    Ok forget Adobe RGB. What I meant really was that there are some monitors that are capable of displaying a wider gamut than sRGB, and when properly calibrated and profiled MAY still use a wider gamut than sRGB. Is this not true?
    _
    _Mike_Ornellas_
    Participating Frequently
    December 3, 2007
    People who use SFW deserve to be confused. Color manglement at its best, brought to you by the good friends at Adobe for lack of proper implementation and real market research by people who know what the F they are doing...

    nice.
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Inspiring
    December 3, 2007
    > An Adobe RGB monitor, accurately calibrated and profiled, will be using the Adobe RGB colour space, right?

    Only if you don't have a clue as to how to calibrate and profile a monitor. Adobe RGB is a device-independent color space; your calibrated and profiled monitor will NOT be using Adobe RGB at all but its own device-dependent color profile. That's the whole point of profiling!

    You clearly do not understand color calibration and profiling, nor color management at all.


    >I'm talking about an image that has already been converted to sRGB (or has always been sRGB) before launching SFW.

    If all of the conditions I mentioned earlier are met, you should NOT see a color shift in that scenario.

    If you insist on working with untagged images and subjecting them to a tortured workflow, all bets are off.

    Really, Raven, at this point I'm out of here. This is one of the most preposterous threads I've read here.
    A
    Anonymous
    December 3, 2007
    An Adobe RGB monitor, accurately calibrated and profiled, will be using the Adobe RGB colour space, right? And an sRGB intended image, without colour management, will be incorrectly mapped to that monitor's colour space, right? Would that not result in an over saturated image in SFW and any other non-colour managed environment?

    Not talking about converting an Adobe RGB image to sRGB...I understand that there may be a colour shift in that conversion process. I'm talking about an image that has already been converted to sRGB (or has always been sRGB) before launching SFW.
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Inspiring
    December 3, 2007
    > Not if you know what you are doing

    and within the limitations of the narrower sRGB color space, of course. If your original image has colors outside the gamut of sRGB, then yes, there will be a color shift REGARDLESS of the monitor you use. A better monitor will allow you to see the color compression or clipping better, but just because you have a poor monitor does not mean that there won't be a color shift in that scenario, just that you can't see it.

    Use soft proofing to correct your colors and saturation BEFORE Saving For Web.
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Inspiring
    December 3, 2007
    Not if you know what you are doing.
    A
    Anonymous
    December 3, 2007
    The Eizo ColorEdge CG221 monitor is marketed as an Adobe RGB monitor. Are you saying that that monitor, accurately calibrated and profiled will not result in a colour shift?
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Inspiring
    December 3, 2007
    >3. Use of a monitor which has a gamut that differs from sRGB

    I'm not sure I agree with 3 as stated at all. An accurately calibrated and correctly profiled monitor should not cause a color shift. It will show you differences in luminance (apparent saturation discrepancies) based on gamma differences (e.g. 2.2 v. 1.8). However, further discussion is futile.

    There can be other causes for a color shift during color conversions, e.g. choosing the wrong color engine (Apple instead of ACE), rendering intent, etc.
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