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jerryl63992203
Known Participant
November 21, 2021
質問

Photoshop Proof Colors: sRGB vs Monitor

  • November 21, 2021
  • 返信数 7.
  • 10196 ビュー


If I work on an sRGB image in Photoshop and correctly tag and save it as sRGB, when that image is opened in a web browser should it look the same as in Photoshop's "Proof Colors: sRGB"?

 

In my setup, In Photoshop, shadows are lighter when proffed in sRGB, darker in Monitor_11_20_2021.icc. Images are also dark in Chrome, Firefox, Opera and Edge.

 

Photoshop's display only matches the browser display when Proof Colors is set to Monitor. But I read that proof colors is for printing and when Monitor is selected it turns off color management?

 

Here's what I'm struggling with conceptually:

Photosho's working space is set to sRGB.
The image is correctly tagged and saved as sRGB.
The file numbers that define colors are set by the profile.
The CMS converts the definition of the colors from Photoshop's sRGB via the monitor profile so they display the same on the monitor.

 

Then why doesn't the monitor profile make Photoshop's sRGB proof the same as what an sRGB-supported application (like a web browser) displays?

 

Here's my setup:

 

Calibrate Monitor with Pantone/Gretagmacbeth i1 hardware calibrator
Using Eye-One Match 3 v3.6.2 software.
Run calibration routine and a color space profile called Monitor_11_20_2021.icc is created.

Windows is set to the Monitor_11_20_2021.icc profile as default and Photoshop to sRGB IEC61966.21 as the working space.

I am embedding the sRGB IEC61966.21 profile in the image when it is saved.

 

Photoshop 23.0.1
Color settings working space: sRGB IEC61966.21

 

Windows 10 20H2 build 19042.1348
Dell U2713HM Monitor
Windows > System > Settings > Display : Monitor_11_20_2021.icc
Windows > Color Management : Device: 1. Generic PnP Monitor - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 745
Use my settings for this decive - Checked on
Profiles associated with this device: Monitor_11_20_2021.icc (default)

このトピックへの返信は締め切られました。

返信数 7

NB, colourmanagement
Community Expert
NB, colourmanagementCommunity Expert
Community Expert
November 29, 2021

"Unfortunately, using Firefox is kind-of a fool-yourself solution. Because while it may work wonderfully on your system, hardly anyone is using Firefox. Chrome has a 65% market share, with Safari at 18%, and all the others at about 4% or less each."

here's a good way to test: 

https://cameratico.com/tools/web-browser-color-management-test/

 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
[please only use the blue reply button at the top of the page, this maintains the original thread title and chronological order of posts]

josephlavine
Community Expert
josephlavineCommunity Expert
Community Expert
November 27, 2021

There are unfortuently too many variables to to why colors may not match precisely. Although you have handled things correctly in tagging your file as sRGB, you need to consider that the website and browser may not be color managed.

warmly/j

NB, colourmanagement
Community Expert
NB, colourmanagementCommunity Expert
Community Expert
November 26, 2021

"If I have everything set to sRGB, then "no preview" and "monitor preview" should be the same, right?

PS is in sRGB. The embedded tag is sRGB. Windows color management set to generic sRGB in 3 different places. Monitor is set to sRGB."

Setting the monitor to sRGB does not mean it matches sRGB exactly as D.Fosse pointed out. 

If you want colour management to work then you need an accurate display profile. 

Setting Photoshop to proof/monitor just turns off colour management so that’s not a worthwhile test.

 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
[please only use the blue reply button at the top of the page, this maintains the original thread title and chronological order of posts]

 

neilB

J
jerryl63992203作成者
Known Participant
November 26, 2021

"If you want color management to work then you need an accurate display profile."


When I compare a preview between the EyeOne profile and a generic sRGB profile, the results are fairly close. 

 

I was advised to investigate the possibility that my EyeOne calibrator was old. I bought a new SypderX Pro and created a new profile (several times actually). That didn't work either.

 

As I'm sure it is obvious to everyone here, this is going to end up being operator error.

 

J
jazz-y
Legend
November 26, 2021

Both the devices you mentioned have their own peculiarities - the i1 from GretagMagbeth is a good, but rather old spectrophotometer, it has poor sensitivity in shadows. It was good on older CRT displays, but on modern monitors can be issues in shadows. Modern software such as DisplayCAL (free software) allows you to take these features into account (there is both compensation for drift in the shadows due to repeated measurement of black patches, and a whole block of settings for black color correction).

 

The SpyderX is a colorimeter with good sensitivity, but it cannot directly measure the color. The principle of operation of the colorimeter is closer to the camera matrix - it measures the amount of light that has passed through the light filters. At the same time, he does not know anything about the spectral characteristics of the light source itself. That is why at the beginning the software prompts you to choose a monitor model (in order to use the spectrum of its backlight as a base for measurements). The slightest deviations of the reference values ​​from the actual state of the backlight lead to an incorrect color assessment and, as a result, to an incorrect profile.

 

You can download DisplayCAL and try to build a SpyderX correction table for your specific monitor (first patches are measured with i1, then the same colors are measured with SpyderX) - this will solve both problems. You will be able to use SpyderX to build a profile and still have accurate measurements.

 

Also I would like to ask you again - upload the monitor profile file. 

D Fosse
Community Expert
D FosseCommunity Expert
Community Expert
November 22, 2021

Your calibrator is very old, and it could be those profiles are not entirely up to current specs. That can sometimes affect applications differently.

 

Some more background:

 

Web browsers usually don't have multi monitor support. Firefox and Chrome will use the monitor profile for the main display even if the browser window sits on the secondary display. And so it will be wrong.

 

Yes, proofing to Monitor RGB turns off all display color management. It makes Photoshop behave as if it had no color management at all. So if that makes it match another application, that application isn't color managed (or not correctly color managed in the current configuration).

 

Turning off color management will normally darken the shadows, to the point where an image that already is predominantly dark will look significantly darker. This is because LCD monitors, uncorrected, all have a native dip in the shadow values. That's just how LCD panels work. This dip is corrected with color management producing a linear response, and so the shadows "lighten".

    J
    jerryl63992203作成者
    Known Participant
    November 22, 2021

    Yes, my calibrator is old, just like me. 🙂

    Looks like it's time to buy a new one. 

    Thanks!

    Jerry

    TheDigitalDog
    TheDigitalDog
    Inspiring
    November 22, 2021
    @jerryl63992203 wrote:

    Yes, my calibrator is old, just like me. 🙂

    Looks like it's time to buy a new one. 

     

    To be clear, you may be fine with your old Colorimeter (although old units with certain kinds of filters fade over time), you probably need a newer piece of software to drive it. It's been like forever since X-rite acquired GretagMacbeth but X-rite might have software you can download that supports your old Colorimeter. 

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
      J
      jazz-y
      Legend
      November 22, 2021

      When I need to check if the application supports color management, I open this picture:

      (the image contains an embedded profile that changes the colors of the traffic light if the profile is applied, click to see it in 100%)

       

      direct link to the file

       

       

        J
        jerryl63992203作成者
        Known Participant
        November 22, 2021

        Hi jazz-y,

         

        Thanks for the link.

         

        Chrome, Firefox, Edge, Internet Exploder, and Opera all show a green light.

         

        Jerry

        TheDigitalDog
        TheDigitalDog
        Inspiring
        November 21, 2021
        @jerryl63992203 wrote:


        If I work on an sRGB image in Photoshop and correctly tag and save it as sRGB, when that image is opened in a web browser should it look the same as in Photoshop's "Proof Colors: sRGB"?

         

        ONLY if the browser is color managed. And if a web site you uploaded the image to, didn't strip the profile which some do. That it matches when you soft proof using "Monitor RGB" tells us that indeed, this is the issue. Or maybe your display profile is corrupted. 

        The entire 'idea' if I can be so kind, for using this soft proof IS to show you how the image would appear incorrectly and without proper color management .

        Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
        J
        jerryl63992203作成者
        Known Participant
        November 22, 2021

        Yes, I'm pretty sure the latest versions of those browsers I test in are all color managed.

        I didn't upload it to a web site, I opened the same image file in the browsers directly from local files on my desktop computer, and I am sure they had the sRGB tag correctly attached.

         

        You said that when it matches using Monitor RGB, it tells you that the issue is that the browser is not color managed, or the tags were stripped out. So we can rule those two out.

         

        That leaves a corrupted display profile. How would I fix that? I've run it from scratch numerous times to try to fix it.

         

        This is a problem that is confusing me conceptually, but I'm getting old.

         

        I keep thinking that when I view an image in Photoshop, working in sRGB color space, with Proof Colors not used, and then correctly save it with an sRGB profile attached, and then open it in an application that is color managed, the images should look the same in Photoshop and the application. but this is not what I'm seeing.

         

         

         

         

         

         

         

        TheDigitalDog
        TheDigitalDog
        Inspiring
        November 22, 2021

        What web browser? Some (like FireFox) may require color management to be turned on. Safari, out of the box would work. 

        So you have an image in sRGB. The scale of the numbers are defined by that color space. But you have to preview that on a display. A profile for that is needed too. Then color management software uses what is known as Display Using Monitor Compensation to create that preview. So you could have a display that isn't anything like sRGB (and likely isn't). Yet you can view sRGB data 'correctly' with the two profiles. 

        When you soft proof to Display RGB, you are effectively telling Photoshop, preview sRGB by sending the numbers directly to the display, do NOT use Display Using Monitor Compensation. 

        In a prefect world, if you had an sRGB document and you had a display that exactly produced sRGB, this all wouldn't be necessary. But such a display really doesn't exist. 

        When you use any color managed application, the sRGB document and the display will produce a preview. And of course it's all based on the current calibration which the display profile describes. So on  your system, all such applications will produce the same preview (when zoomed to the same and ideally correct zoom ratio). Photoshop is or course color managed. If another application doesn't match, it's that applications fault. Without color management, sRGB is a meaningless concept. 

        Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
        J
        jerryl63992203作成者
        Known Participant
        November 21, 2021

        I wrote:

         

        The file numbers that define colors are set by the profile.

         

        I understand that the profile doesn't change the numbers, just their interpretation for the output device.

         

         

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