Skip to main content
richclarkimages
richclarkimages
Participant
July 28, 2021
Answered

Photoshop .psd in CMYK dropping 100K Blacks on Save As FOGRA39 PDF. Why?

  • July 28, 2021
  • 3 replies
  • 4523 views

I have a multi layer PSD in Photoshop that contains two layers (text and a barcode) that I need to be in 100K Black i.e. C0M0Y0K100. Within the documents they show as 100K black via 'Info'. The document is set in CMYK. I Flatten,  choose to Save As a Photoshop PDF. I have tow Options to tick:

 

Use Proof Setup: Working CMYK or the ICC Profile SWOP (Coated). I choose the former. I Click Save. 

 

I choose PDF/X-1a:2001 I change Ouput to Convert to Destination and to FOGRA39. (As requested by my printer). I Save it. 

 

I open the PDF In Acrobat Pro DC and check the Ouput Preview only to find that both elements have changed from 100K black to rich black. 

 

How do I prevent this from happening?

 

 

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer richclarkimages

No reason to assign (and that's often very dangerous: http://digitaldog.net/files/06AssignProfileCommand.pdf). Assign doesn't change the data whatsoever. It simply changes the meaning of the exiting values. 

 

If you want to and can 'start from scratch' in Photoshop, in CMYK, start with the CMYK color space as you desire: FOGRA39.

 

From there, I assume again, you are creating everything inside Photoshop; no images from RGB etc. 

Again, if you start with the type tool, you can define any CMYK values you wish and fill the text with those values IN FOGRA39. 

 


I did 'assign' the FOGRA39 profile to the .PSD and perhaps I got lucky? I then Saved as a PDF with the FOGRA39 profile ticked. I chose not to convert colour. Hey presto, I now have 100K blacks on the Acrobat Output View when viewed as the FOGRA39 profile. 

 

Problem solved. So the key is to create the document in the correct profile on creation. On this occasion the design process started before the client had chosen their supplier. Very pleased it is possible. 

3 replies

ceyhun_akgun
ceyhun_akgun
Legend
July 28, 2021

Correct profiles should be used for the printing area. If possible, the document should be created with the target profile. For the printing industry, Fogra is ideal. Fogra 39 or 51. Synchronize the profile via Adobe Bridge. Then start creating documents. There is no change after rendering black in CMYK mode.

Graphic Designer Educator / PrePress Consultant
    T
    Test Screen Name
    Legend
    July 28, 2021

    Converting between two different CMYK spaces will change your colour values - by design. Whether your printer asks for it or not, converting to FOGRA39 will lose your 100%K. 

    Solution: convert to FOGRA39 --first-- before you make any marks on the page. 

      TheDigitalDog
      TheDigitalDog
      Inspiring
      July 28, 2021

      Well yes, converting to FOGRA39 first makes total sense but just look how 0/0/0 RGB (black) converts to CMYK using that (RelCol):

      IF the goal is RGB 0/0/0 to CMY0/K100%, this isn't going to fly. 

      The Lab values also tell the full story; a black hole. 

      Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
        T
        Test Screen Name
        Legend
        July 28, 2021

        Indeed not. This is why the conversion must be first. Really, really first. No RGB values to convert or inherit, nothing. I observe the original post did not even mention what the working CMYK was, so I am assuming it was just randomly whatever Photoshop's settings were.

        TheDigitalDog
        TheDigitalDog
        Inspiring
        July 28, 2021

        SWOP isn't going to do what you desire by design. That's the first issue.

        You'll need (and in theory can create using the very old Classic CMYK engine in Photoshop) a recipe that maps RGB 0/0/0 to CMY0/K100. 

        Or maybe: 

        https://www.clashgraphics.com/printing-tips/printing-true-rich-black-and-when-to-use-it/

        Easier and less possbility for issues: Provide a tagged RGB document to the printer; let them deal with the conversions. 

        Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
          richclarkimages
          richclarkimagesAuthor
          Participant
          July 28, 2021

          Thanks for this. I'm 'progressing'. I Assigned the Photoshop 4 CMYK profile to the .PSD. It was previously the Working CMYK Swop 2. Saving it now, with no conversion, maintains the 100K blacks when I check the output in Acrobat. The final stage will be figuring out how to get it into the FOGRA39 colourspace and maintain/convert those blacks. 

          T
          Test Screen Name
          Legend
          July 28, 2021

          " I Assigned the Photoshop 4 CMYK profile to the .PSD...."  No, assign the FOGRA39 profile right at the start. Otherwise you have just moved your problem around. The aim has to be to have NO CONVERSION, since conversion will break your CMYK numbers, as it is supposed to.

            Terms & ConditionsAccessibility statement
            Using the community Terms of use Privacy Cookie preferences Do not sell or share my personal information ad choicesAdChoices