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dzigakaiser
dzigakaiser
Known Participant
July 13, 2018
Answered

PS Color Management for print with calibrated display

  • July 13, 2018
  • 1 reply
  • 889 views

Hello dear community,

I was hoping you can enlighten me regarding one issue with the complex color management topic. Now that I finally thought I understand it all there is something that boggles my mind. I will try to explain it understandably

First things first, my workstation is set up as follows:

Win 7 Ult. 64bit

EIZO CS270 calibrated to 6500K Y2.2 100cd with ColorNavigator and a Spyder 5 (ICC)

Dell U2713H calibrated to 6500K Y2.2 100cd with Spyder 5 Elite (ICC)

As I understand from older threads in this community (Photoshop diplays all images with desaturated colors (Images look fine when opened in other apps) ), PS tries to show us the most accurate color taking the ICC profile and image profile into account. Noel describes it really well in his post and I thought I understand but maybe I don't because I am in the following situation now:

I am working on two images for an exhibition and I tried to be as correct about colors and profiles as possible. Since the beginning I use the ICC profile for glossy canvas prints from the print service that will be printing the final images (basically their proof ICC that is used on sRGB images inside PS).

My images are created in sRGB space with the proof enabled to check the colors and values.

Whenever I opened my output from PS in other non-managed programs I noticed the increase in contrast and saturation as described in the other thread. I accepted it after reading about the way PS tries to be the most accurate while many other programs don't take the ICC profile into consideration.

Now I ordered a small test print and got the saturated version instead of the "more accurate PS colors".

Since I can see the same colors in PS when I load in the Monitor RGB as proof, I assume it really is because of the whole ICC calibration topic. Now that it seems I will have to look at my images in PS with monitor colors and the print ICC profile I purchased a LUT converter to create an inverted cube file from my display calibration ICC profile. So, basically I have a workaround now to load in the cube into an adjustment layer and use the print proof ontop. I feel like this makes no sense at all, though

The big question in my head is: why do I even calibrate my displays and work in a color managed software if in the end the print comes out the way it looks in non colormanaged applications?

Shouldn't I be able to calibrate my display for color accuracy and expect the same output from a print since I used their proof? It's not like I worked in sRGB without using a proof and printed in CMYK and now wonder what happened 😕😕

I must be missing something here. I would be really grateful for your opinion on this as I planned to also sell photo prints in the near future but now I don't know anymore what software and which profiles to trust. I would say I have an understanding of working with color spaces in film production (usually AlexaLog or ACES) and normally know my way around but this print event set me back a little.

I apologize for any grammar mistakes!

Thanks in advance and have a great weekend!

Dziga

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer D Fosse

dzigakaiser  wrote

I just created a new target for the EIZO (again 100cd 6500K 2.2 gamma). I was not 100% sure what to choose in the dropdown menu for gamut in the ColorNavigator software so I stuck with the default "Monitor Gamut".

Yes, native gamut is what you want. The profile describes the monitor's response as it is. As long as the profile describes that correctly, whatever it is, the image will display correctly.

As for calibration targets, what you really want isn't any particular set of numbers, but whatever matches the printed output. By that I don't mean individual colors, but basic paper color and max ink, which defines the endpoints. This ensures a predictable result as long as the rest of the color management is in order.

IOW, set monitor white to visually match paper color, and monitor black to visually match max ink. Nevermind the numbers, let them fall wherever they want. That said, 100/6500 should normally not be too far off (that depends on your working environment).

I don't think this printer has a proper color management procedure. Try someone else.

1 reply

D Fosse
Community Expert
D FosseCommunity Expert
Community Expert
July 13, 2018

First of all, turn off proof and keep it off for now! Proofing is just to check for gamut clipping later, it has no bearing on general color reproduction. Keep it simple for now.

Now go back to start. Double check your monitor profile, or better yet, make a new one. Don't change any settings in the monitor afterwards - if you do, the profile is invalidated.

Don't change any application color settings. If you have, change them back. All this should work out of the box at default settings. The Eizo will display the file accurately, as long as the profile is good. I'd disconnect the Dell until you know you're on firm ground.

Now, about proofing. This is used to check for gamut clipping - if the are colors that can't be reproduced in the print profile. To check that, just flip proof on and off. Do you see any difference? If you don't all is well. If you do, you need to decide whether it's worthwhile to compensate.

That's all you use proof for. Otherwise, keep it off.

External printing services are always risky. Not all of them observe correct color management procedures. If they ask for sRGB, that's a hint that they don't.

    dzigakaiser
    dzigakaiserAuthor
    Known Participant
    July 14, 2018

    Hi D Fosse,

    thanks a lot for your insight. I just created a new target for the EIZO (again 100cd 6500K 2.2 gamma). I was not 100% sure what to choose in the dropdown menu for gamut in the ColorNavigator software so I stuck with the default "Monitor Gamut". Should I choose a different gamut?

    The result looks identical to my previous profile (the EIZO prevents you from changing any settings when the calibrated profile is selected).

    I left the Dell disconnected throughout the procedure and till now.

    In PS I reset the color settings to the defaults (only change I had made before was the blending of RGB values with a gamma of 1 since this is useful in my field of work).

    No soft proofs are enabled and the image looks as it did before (less saturated and less contrast than in other non managed applications). I am aware of what the soft proof does. I simply used for its purpose to see what values and colors will not be correctly reproduced when printing on their glossy canvas. It was showing slight clipping in the blacks but nothing much. Comparing their soft proof to the actual print I lost a lot of details in much brighter shadow areas due to the unexpected increase in contrast.

    I am holding the print next to my display and it has much more contrast and is more saturated. On the printing service's website in their ICC profile section they themselves are saying to calibrate the display to the values I used as my target. I feel a little confused why the print wouldn't turn out as expected when following their guidelines.

    When I ordered the print on their website they had the option to let them adjust the image to compensate for print colors. Since I had everything set up to meet their workflow I unchecked this, of course. I think I will also contact them to see if they can enlighten me with their process. I didn't expect it to be that risky with a professional printing service :/

    What I am taking from this so far is that my setup is indeed correct but I have to find a way to compensate for the services print colors, am I right?

    Thanks so far!

    Kind regards,

    Dziga

    Creating worlds for screen and paper - also offering photo resources and HDRIs on www.dziga.com
    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    D FosseCommunity ExpertCorrect answer
    Community Expert
    July 15, 2018

    dzigakaiser  wrote

    I just created a new target for the EIZO (again 100cd 6500K 2.2 gamma). I was not 100% sure what to choose in the dropdown menu for gamut in the ColorNavigator software so I stuck with the default "Monitor Gamut".

    Yes, native gamut is what you want. The profile describes the monitor's response as it is. As long as the profile describes that correctly, whatever it is, the image will display correctly.

    As for calibration targets, what you really want isn't any particular set of numbers, but whatever matches the printed output. By that I don't mean individual colors, but basic paper color and max ink, which defines the endpoints. This ensures a predictable result as long as the rest of the color management is in order.

    IOW, set monitor white to visually match paper color, and monitor black to visually match max ink. Nevermind the numbers, let them fall wherever they want. That said, 100/6500 should normally not be too far off (that depends on your working environment).

    I don't think this printer has a proper color management procedure. Try someone else.

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