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Participant
March 23, 2023
Question

Saving b&w photos in Photoshop.

  • March 23, 2023
  • 3 replies
  • 540 views

I have a question regarding saving black and white photos in Photoshop. Since I haven't done many conversions like this before and I generally can't be called an expert in Photoshop, I have encountered a few problems that I can't handle. The biggest one I want to share with you here is when I save the photo - it looks significantly different on my computer screen and phone screen. I realize that this is probably related, just like in the case of color photography with improper calibration of my computer screen, but I noticed that the photo looks different depending on which color profile it is saved in. If I save the flattened image in grayscale and convert it to sRGB with an embedded color, it looks good on my phone screen but significantly lighter in blacks on my computer screen. On the other hand, if I flatten the image and change the mode to RGB and then convert it to sRGB with an embedded color, it looks good on my computer screen, but it's much darker on my phone screen.

In the case of this particular photo, it's important to me because it shows three women walking down the street entering a shadow that I tried to darken further in editing to create the effect of moving from a bright area to darkness. So if I saved the photo in grayscale to look good on my phone, it would lose its effect on my computer screen - the shadow would be significantly lightened. If I save it in RGB, it will look good on my computer screen, but it's too dark on my phone screen, and the shadow they are entering becomes almost completely black.

I tried to find a solution to my problem here and on other websites, but unfortunately, I failed. So I would be extremely grateful for any help.

This topic has been closed for replies.

3 replies

D Fosse
Community Expert
Community Expert
March 23, 2023

Yes, I deliberately avoided the can of worms which is grayscale in my reply, just to keep it simple.

 

The overriding advice for grayscale is this: don't go there unless you know what you're doing. Much of the problem is that the Photoshop default working gray, Dot Gain (at whatever percentage) has a very idiosyncratic tone curve which bears little relevance to any modern workflow or output condition. The dot gain profiles are generic and by now very outdated profiles for offset print. Nowadays you use the K component in a CMYK profile for this purpose.

 

Another problem with grayscale is that many applications don't support grayscale color management (yes, I know; there's no color, but color management principles still apply. There's still a tone curve).

 

If you must work with grayscale, set your working gray to either Gray Gamma 2.2 or sGray. But sRGB or Adobe RGB are both much safer, even for monochrome.

c.pfaffenbichler
Community Expert
Community Expert
March 23, 2023

A »can of worms« indeed, but one well worth considering here, I guess. 

Simply not converting to grayscale (if it is not technically necessary) might simplify the process for the original poster. 

NB, colourmanagement
Community Expert
Community Expert
March 28, 2023

@c.pfaffenbichler yeah I'd be working in sRGB, keeps it simple

 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

c.pfaffenbichler
Community Expert
Community Expert
March 23, 2023

Why are you involving grayscale at all? 

Are the images really going to be printed 1C? 

Participant
March 25, 2023

To be completely honest, my use of greyscale while editing was not a conscious choice but rather incompetence in this matter. After switching to the black and white profile in Camera Raw, I opened the photo in Photoshop, which I believe automatically switched the photo to grayscale, and I didn't change it throughout the editing process. As I mentioned earlier, I am a complete novice in this area, so mistakes are more common than rare for me. Thanks a lot for pointing this out. 

 

Cheers!

D Fosse
Community Expert
Community Expert
March 23, 2023

There are two things at play here:

  • the tone response curve of the actual data. You need to standardize this, and the most practical way to do that is to convert to sRGB IEC61966-2.1, and to make sure that profile is embedded. Then it will be correctly treated in all applications that support color management. In those that don't, the sRGB tone curve is similar enough to most screens' native tone response curve that it should look basically right anywhere.
  • screen brightness. This is more tricky. Setting a brightness level for the white point is an essential component in monitor calibration. In dealing with photographs and similar, we do in fact have a reference that we can all agree on: the brightness of white paper. Obviously, this isn't a numerical reference, but a strictly visual one. Lots of external factors influence perception, so what you want is simply to see the equivalent of paper white on screen. Try this visual test on your phone. It's probably way too bright.

 

If you use a calibrator on your computer, the white level according to these criteria will normally (under "average" indoor conditions) be in the vicinity of 120 cd/m². That's just to give you a ballpark figure.

 

The black point also has a huge impact on the visual experience. The deeper the black, the more punch. High-end calibrators will let you set the black point, but many don't, and you just have to live with the native black point. This will vary a lot with screen technology, but all of them will normally be much deeper black than you get with ink on paper or any other printing technology. Only a silver gelatine print of the highest grade can compete with an average computer screen.

Participant
March 25, 2023

Oh my! Thank you for such a detailed, clear and clear answer! 🙂

 

Of course, you're right - screen calibration is undoubtedly extremely important here. The one I'm currently using to edit photos is unfortunately very far from perfect in this regard, but following your advice, I will try to change that and pay more attention to the white and black points in the photos. As I mentioned before - I am a complete novice in black and white photo editing, so any advice of this kind is worth its weight in gold to me.

 

Cheers!