Skip to main content
K
karpiyon
Inspiring
July 30, 2019
Answered

Strange results when converting to RGB or sRGB.

  • July 30, 2019
  • 3 replies
  • 6476 views

I am trying to send a photo to print and for that i need to convert it to rsg or srgb.

The images, in PS are in Prophoto rgb.

When i use LightRoom to do this, the colors in the exported files are very similar to the ones in PS, which is what i want.

However, when i use PS to export as JPEG, or export and save layercomps, or convert to sRGB/RGB and save as jpeg, i always get wring (washed out) colors.

To which profile should i convert my PS images, which are currently in Prophoto rgb so that they would appear similar when saved as jpeg.

these are my original settings:

which setting should i convert to when i convert to rgb?

I also noticed that if i use PS "Export As" dialog the colors appear fine but i cannot use this since i want to use my scripts which saved the images as rgb.

Dan

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer D Fosse

    karpiyon  wrote


    After opening the file, if I (A) hide the adjustment layer, convert to srgb the colors are preserved correctly.

    When I (B) unhide the adjustment layers and do the same the colors are washed out.

    When I try to flatten the image before converting or play around with the settings, the colors suddenly appear correctly.

    If I then undo try (B) again, suddenly the colors show up correctly.

    This is not a bug. It is in fact expected and normal behavior.

    Adjustments are numerical. A profile conversion changes the numbers. So it follows that all numerical adjustments are color space specific. The same adjustment will produce different effects in different color spaces. Again, this is how it has to be, and this is why Photoshop asks you if you want to flatten before conversion.

    I was about to say "try it for yourself" - but that's just what you did...you just misinterpreted the result.

    ---

    BTW, there is no particular advantage in ProPhoto for luminosity masks. A luminosity mask is lifted from a (slightly modified) Lab L channel, and the mask is identical whatever the document color space.

    There are many myths surrounding ProPhoto. One of the most persistent is that it's the "best" color space. It isn't - it's just the largest. But that comes at a price. Increased risk of banding is one, severely compressed shadow values is another. The latter makes subtle shadow adjustments very difficult, because small numerical changes have large effects. It's difficult to use the histogram to spot and correct shadow color casts.

    Routinely using ProPhoto increases the risk of unwanted gamut clipping, because you are forced to deal with it all in one go, at the output stage. Clipping is much easier to control early on. The main use of ProPhoto is to catch and contain raw processor artifacts until you can get them under control, without premature clipping.

    Oh, and BTW - there is no reason whatsoever to "match" Lightroom and Photoshop (or to "synchronize" color settings). These are color managed applications, and any profile, regardless what it is, will be correctly handled. That's the whole point of color management in the first place. That's what it does.

    3 replies

    Mike_Gondek10189183
    Community Expert
    Mike_Gondek10189183Community Expert
    Community Expert
    July 30, 2019

    Can you post a lo res copy of the image before  and after color conversion.

    What are your jpeg settings especially level of compression.

    Are you using edit >> Convert to Proflle >> sRGB

    K
    karpiyonAuthor
    Inspiring
    July 31, 2019

    I think it a bug...

    I've been using Pro Photo profile for years. It has the largest color range and is the best profile to use when working with luminosity masks.

    I think this is a bug since I see different results when I follow the same procedure.

    I always convert to sRGB and save as JPEG for printing. I used “Export as” just to test what the results would be but I never use it for print.

    After opening the file, if I (A) hide the adjustment layer, convert to srgb the colors are preserved correctly.

    When I (B) unhide the adjustment layers and do the same the colors are washed out.

    When I try to flatten the image before converting or play around with the settings, the colors suddenly appear correctly.

    If I then undo try (B) again, suddenly the colors show up correctly.

    I've attached my sample image and what i noticed it an inconsistent behavior.

    https://adobe.ly/319f6HE

    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    D FosseCommunity ExpertCorrect answer
    Community Expert
    July 31, 2019

    karpiyon  wrote


    After opening the file, if I (A) hide the adjustment layer, convert to srgb the colors are preserved correctly.

    When I (B) unhide the adjustment layers and do the same the colors are washed out.

    When I try to flatten the image before converting or play around with the settings, the colors suddenly appear correctly.

    If I then undo try (B) again, suddenly the colors show up correctly.

    This is not a bug. It is in fact expected and normal behavior.

    Adjustments are numerical. A profile conversion changes the numbers. So it follows that all numerical adjustments are color space specific. The same adjustment will produce different effects in different color spaces. Again, this is how it has to be, and this is why Photoshop asks you if you want to flatten before conversion.

    I was about to say "try it for yourself" - but that's just what you did...you just misinterpreted the result.

    ---

    BTW, there is no particular advantage in ProPhoto for luminosity masks. A luminosity mask is lifted from a (slightly modified) Lab L channel, and the mask is identical whatever the document color space.

    There are many myths surrounding ProPhoto. One of the most persistent is that it's the "best" color space. It isn't - it's just the largest. But that comes at a price. Increased risk of banding is one, severely compressed shadow values is another. The latter makes subtle shadow adjustments very difficult, because small numerical changes have large effects. It's difficult to use the histogram to spot and correct shadow color casts.

    Routinely using ProPhoto increases the risk of unwanted gamut clipping, because you are forced to deal with it all in one go, at the output stage. Clipping is much easier to control early on. The main use of ProPhoto is to catch and contain raw processor artifacts until you can get them under control, without premature clipping.

    Oh, and BTW - there is no reason whatsoever to "match" Lightroom and Photoshop (or to "synchronize" color settings). These are color managed applications, and any profile, regardless what it is, will be correctly handled. That's the whole point of color management in the first place. That's what it does.

      D Fosse
      Community Expert
      D FosseCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      July 30, 2019

      First of all, don't use Export in Photoshop. It's for web/screen, it's not intended for print. Just Save As.

      Edit > Convert to sRGB, make sure the profile is embedded. Save As to jpeg. That's it.

      karpiyon  wrote

      my PS images, which are currently in Prophoto rgb so that they would appear similar when saved as jpeg.

      That's a misunderstanding. ProPhoto is a very dangerous color space to use if you don't understand the implications, and I've always thought it very strange that it's the default in Lightroom. Defaults are supposed to be fit for beginners - but beginners get in trouble all the time because of this. Those who need ProPhoto will have enough knowledge to find it on their own.

      I'd recommend you stay with sRGB until you get more experience.

        Bob_Hallam
        Bob_Hallam
        Legend
        July 30, 2019

        Hi Dan,

        Right off the bat I see your using Relative Colorimetric Rendering intent to go from the largets RGB color space to the smallest.  That clips off colors from the large space going to the smallest and scales neutrals.  Try using Perceptual rendering, I'm sure you will get a more pleasing result.  Also When exporting RGB images always embed the ICC profile.  In your case it's sRGB.  Are you doing that when exporting out of PS?

        Bob

        ICC programmer and developer, Photographer, artist and color management expert, Print standards and process expert.
        D Fosse
        Community Expert
        D FosseCommunity Expert
        Community Expert
        July 30, 2019

        Bob_Hallam  wrote

        Right off the bat I see your using Relative Colorimetric Rendering intent to go from the largets RGB color space to the smallest.  That clips off colors from the large space going to the smallest and scales neutrals.  Try using Perceptual rendering

        Standard RGB working color spaces (sRGB/Adobe RGB/ProPhoto) do not support other intents than Relative Colorimetric. You can choose other intents, but Relative Colorimetric is what you get regardless.

        Bob_Hallam
        Bob_Hallam
        Legend
        July 30, 2019

        Interesting and confirmed here...Is this a bug?  Seems a very bizare behaviour For Adobe to include nerfed rendering intents. 

        ICC programmer and developer, Photographer, artist and color management expert, Print standards and process expert.
        Terms & ConditionsAccessibility statement
        Using the community Terms of use Privacy Cookie preferences Do not sell or share my personal information ad choicesAdChoices