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Participant
July 22, 2019
Question

Layer masks introduce dither?

  • July 22, 2019
  • 4 replies
  • 1309 views

I'm often working with layer masks in order to put together textures for a non-PBR virtual world title.

Today, while trying to redo some shading due to me knowing how to handle 16-bit to 8 bit conversions better, I ran into another problem.

Lets assume I take a black and white image layer within an 8-bit RGB PSD file. I copy the layer, hit quick mask, paste, quick mask again. Then use that selection to fill a layer mask.

Here's where the problem begins. The black and white image I copied has nice, smooth gradients. The layer created by the mask however, suffers from noticeable dithering. It seems that pasting image data through quick mask results in dithering issues. Is there a way around it? 8-bit color really can't be the issue here, since the layer outside of a mask looks fine. Unless masks somehow have less color bit range than layers? Any help would be appreciated here.

original layer: Screenshot - 183df8020520773a48d87337d60ea15c - Gyazo

after pasting into a mask: Screenshot - 70c3737bda80313a6eb8078982e7ec63 - Gyazo

its a bit hard to see in this example, but very noticeable in photoshop.

Also I want to bring up something else. I noticed that if I import a 16-bit image from substance painter, then tell photoshop to drop the bit depth to 8 bit, i get horrible dithering. If I however open a new, 8-bit file, then copy all layers over, I have zero dithering. Is this a bug, or is there some intention behind this? Also disabling dithering in preferences only makes the conversion result that much worse. I just wonder why converting sucks, whilst pasting into an 8 bit file works flawlessly.

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    4 replies

    Participating Frequently
    July 23, 2019

    DESTRUCTIVE

    Work-Around to reduce noise in general (old school):

    Make a selection of the original image.

    Save selection.

    Bring selection to your "dithered" layer.

    Filter - tiny motion blur at 90•

    Filter - tiny motion blur at 180•.

    Filter - Sharpen - Unsharp mask.

    (selection keeps it inbounds)

    ---------------------

    Non Destructive

    Make original layer a smart object.

    Create adjustment layers on original art to taste, then drop same adjustments onto your dithered pic.

    Delete adjustments from the original.

    Reopen the original in a separate doc. (only because you can't copy and paste it without dither)

    Make it a Smart object.

    Desaturate it completely.

    Increase contrast to max (b&w)

    Select darkest spot, Select Color Range (use slider for all darks) - create adjustment mask.

    Click art layer.

    Select lightest spot, Select color range (all lights) - create adjustment mask.

    Pull new art with adjustment layers into original document.

    Blend if to clean up any strays or mess.

    Smooth your selections and adjust layers for desired affect.

    ------------------------

    SO SIMPLE AN IDIOT COULD DO IT.

    Open it. Rename it. Save it. Open both. Pull one onto the other.

    c.pfaffenbichler
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    July 23, 2019

    Another issue that may be involved here is that Photoshop Selections are only 8bit, even in a 16bit image.

    Stephen Marsh
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    July 23, 2019

    Do you mean banding? Dither is usually the brute force solution to break up banding.

    There is indeed LSB dither when dropping from 16 to 8 bpc, however I wouldn't have called it terrible, at least in the context of photography (except if you require a truly uniform flat area of solid tone, as opposed to gradations). Truly synthetic "pure" images may show the LSB dither as more unsightly compared to a natural photograph. Can you change a copy down to 8 bpc in the other software? If so how does it compare? You could turn off the dither or merge two copies together with dither on/off in flat areas.

    c.pfaffenbichler
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    July 23, 2019

    Please post meaningful screenshots taken at at least View > 100% including all pertinent Panels (Options Bar, Layers, Channels, …) on this Forum directly.

    Lets assume I take a black and white image layer within an 8-bit RGB PSD file. I copy the layer, hit quick mask, paste, quick mask again. Then use that selection to fill a layer mask.

    If you are in 8 bit anyway you could just load the luminance of the composite channel in the Channels Panels (even including hiding other Layers and showing them again if necessary that would still seem more efficient to me).

    Also I want to bring up something else. I noticed that if I import a 16-bit image from substance painter, then tell photoshop to drop the bit depth to 8 bit, i get horrible dithering. If I however open a new, 8-bit file, then copy all layers over, I have zero dithering.

    Can you provide a file for testing?

    What are your Edit > Color Settings?