Acrobat Output Preview panel behavior change: Simulation Profile changed appearance, now values

[David Cardillo, PRH]

I'm currently seeing this behavior in the 2024 version. I'm not sure with which version this changed.

Architecture: x86_64

Processor: Intel

Build: 24.4.20219.0

AGM: 7.1.8

So when you open a PDF, the Output Preview panel defaults to your working color profile, either set in the Acrobat preferences or synchronized through Bridge. Unless of course, the PDF/X file had a specified Output Intent, where it will default to that Simulation Profile. The ink values in the Separations are consistent with the exported file.

I know I'm not imagining things, but it used to be when you changed to a different Simulation Profile, the view of that color breakdown would change, showing how that ink formula would appear in that other printing condition. All the numbers stayed the same, but their chromatic appearance on screen shifted to simulate the other condition. This is what (we assumed) this function was for.

Now it's behaving differently: now if you switch to a different Simulation Profile, the values of the inks change. The appearance stays the same, but all the ink numbers move. This is consistent with a conversion.

A similar behavior would be in InDesign, or Photoshop, with the difference between Assigning a color profile, or Converting to that same profile. One changes the appearance of those values, the other changes the values to preserve the appearance.

This new behavior is causing issues for us. 

If I have a file I know is destined for a Fogra press, but was not output with an Output Intent specified, when I open it on my system, where my default CMYK profile is GRACoL 2013, that's the profile the Output Preview panel will display. When I change the Simulation Profile to Fogra 47, I get different CMYK values in the art. But I need to see the original values but in that other profile.

This is not how this panel is supposed to work — not how it's labeled, not how it used to work in the past. I am not converting the color — my printer is not converting the color. (Most of them will not accept a color-managed PDF.) They are plating the ink values I've given them. Is that not the purpose of the Simulation Profile, in the Output Preview panel?

Or someone tell me my memory is wrong, and this is some kind of Mandala effect, and this was always the behavior.

Is there some application preference or setting to revert to the previous behavior?

(I do not currently have an installation with an older version — 2021, 22 — to show screen shots of the different behavior.)

[AnandSri]

Hello,

I hope you're doing well, and we apologize for the delayed response and the trouble.

Please ensure you have the latest version of Acrobat installed on the machine: 24.005.2039x Planned update, Jan 23, 2025. Check for any pending updates from the Menu > help > check for updates, install the updates, restart the app and the machine, and check.
For more information, see this: https://adobe.ly/40z1JRj.

Check Acrobat Preferences: Ensure that your color settings are correctly configured in Acrobat. To know more see this article: https://adobe.ly/40CMWoz

Also, check this community discussion and the article and try the suggestions: Change default profile for Output Preview? - Adobe Community - 9711561

Previewing output (Adobe Acrobat Pro)

I hope this helps.

Thanks,

Anand Sri.

[David Cardillo, PRH]

thank you, @AnandSri , for your reply.

I feel you've misunderstood the issue.

I know how to set my color preferences in the application. Configuring the color management settings and profiles for my organization is my job.

Also, upgrading is not an option for me, as my environment is managed by the enterprise. Unless you are telling me that this behavior is a known issue (I could not find references to it) and this was addressed and corrected in the latest (just this week?) update. I also could find no references to this issue in any bug reports/feature requests. (So I created one: https://acrobat.uservoice.com/forums/590923-acrobat-for-windows-and-mac/suggestions/49354673-acrobat...)

My issue is not the default profile that's used for output simulation.

My issue is when I change the output simulation, the visual simulation of that output is not applied to the existing color, but my existing ink values are changed to match the visual output in the other profile.

I do not want to know how the values will convert — if I were to convert them to the other profile. I need to see how these ink values will appear in the other (simulated) profile.

[David Cardillo, PRH]

just want to add that this is a change from previous observed behavior. It was not always like this. At some point it was changed.

[David Cardillo, PRH]

From the last link: Previewing output (Adobe Acrobat Pro) https://adobe.ly/40FBA36

You can simulate how your PDF will appear under different conditions using the Output preview feature....
Changes made in the Output preview dialog box directly affect your document's appearance....
Note: If you are using a color management system (CMS) with accurately calibrated ICC profiles and have calibrated your monitor, the onscreen separation preview colors more closely match the final color separation output.

This is *not* the application's current behavior. This is the previous, expected behavior.

Currently, the application modifies the ink values in the separations — altering the separations, not the appearance of them.

[AnandSri]

Hello David!

Thank you for sharing the detailed information. We recommend upgrading to the latest available version to access the newest features and security enhancements. If possible, check the behavior with the latest version and let us know the results.  

If the issue persists and the visual simulation of the output is not applied to the existing colour, please collect logs from the affected machine using the current version of the app—and, if possible, the latest version as well—and share them with us for further investigation. Also, use the Preflight tool once to check the PDF properties and for any errors. Share the PDF as well with us for testing purposes.

Thanks,

Anand Sri.

[David Cardillo, PRH]

Hello, Anand, thanks for your reply.

I looked at the current release notes, and I did not see anything in there that this new version addresses this particular issue. Nonetheless, I've updated to version 25.001

Architecture: x86_64

Processor: Intel

Build: 25.1.20432.0

AGM: 7.1.10

CoolType: 10.0.2

JP2K: 4.0.2.54782

I won't be sharing a PDF as 1) I am not authorized to share published files; and 2) it happens to *ALL* PDFs, no matter their source or creator.

I am also the person at my organization who creates our custom preflight profiles, so I'm experienced with the Preflight panel and the tools it contains. I also use Enfocus Pitstop to check files for errors and make changes the built-in Acrobat tools cannot. None of the files I am looking at (and again that would be all of them) have any issues I can detect. If you have any parameters I should be looking for specifically (that again would appear in any PDF from any source) let me know and I'll create a preflight profile to search for it.

one such PDF has type with a 70% yellow fill over a blue background of 74% cyan, 29% yellow. The PDF has an Output Intent of US Web Coated SWOP v2.

Just like I detailed above, when I change the Simulation Profile to any other output profile (e.g. GRACoL2013_CRPC6) all of the ink values change. In this case, the type fill became 62% yellow, plus 1% each cyan and magenta, and the blue background switched to 72% cyan, 28% yellow.

I made notes on the color breakdowns both before and after changing the Simulation Profile (the comment content remained the same, with no indication of profile change):

I feel it is safe to assume this issue has not been addressed.

(And for what it's worth, I had to turn "the latest security enhancements" off so I could continue to use Pitstop.)

[DavidSmerda]

Hello there, 

I'm using Output Preview on a daily basis and do not remember it changing over the years. 

Perhaps it is related to the files you receive from your clients? They might have changed their export settings?

To test that, I have prepared three PDF files; could you please open them in Acrobat and report if one of them behave in the way you remember?

This might be a longshot but let me know what you find out,

David

[David Cardillo, PRH]

Thank you, David, for taking the time to create a series of PDFs for testing.

I would invite you, however, to test them yourself and verify the behavior I've been describing. Check the ink values in the Output Preview panel. Then change the Simulation Profile. Then verify if the ink values are the same or different. (They should be the same, and their on-screen appearance should change.)

I am not downloading and opening unsolicited PDFs, for the same reasons one should not click on URLs in unsolicited emails.

I do not work for some service bureau that receives PDFs from clients made from multiple sources. I work for a book publisher and the bulk of my work is the hundreds of book titles per month we output — all conforming to the PDF/X-4 (2010) print spec (color managed, with an Output Intent) — to thousands of titles in our backlist that have already printed. Those range from PDF/X-4-compliant files to converted Quark exports to old Scitex copydot files.

All of those files — and any other PDF I open, from the Enfocus Pitstop manual PDF to the "Welcome to Document Cloud" PDF that comes with every Acrobat install — all have the observed behavior, which is different from the expected behavior.

Like you, I've been doing this for quite some time. This is why I can say with confidence that the expected behavior should be the behavior described on Adobe's website in their own documentation. Which is:

Changing the Simulation Profile in the Output Preview panel should alter the appearance of the Simulation of that particular Output. Any other function is a disservice.

I am not asking Acrobat to convert my PDF to a new profile — there are tools for that, and the Output Preview Simulation Profile is not it.

Either:

A) there has been a settings change on my system (and every other system I've tested this on) that altered the behavior, and I'm asking what that is so I can change it back; or

B) there has been a change in the application to modify it from the previous behavior — a change that no one in this industry has asked for — and I need a way to change it back.

[DavidSmerda]

Okay, so something like this below is what you're after?

Sorry for the quality, but it should be what you're describing at the top (ie. chenge of color without changing the color values).

It was captured on the latest version of Acrobat Pro. 

I have sent you three files. The first one is the one I have open in the picture above. No PDF/X standard (and no Document level output intent) behaves like this. 

The two other files (B and C) are just a copies of the first file with one notable exception, they conform with PDF/X-6 specification, thus have an embedded Output Intent on a Document Level (file B) or Page Leve (file C).

The moment you embed an Output Intent to the document (be it on a document level or page level), all the DeviceCMYK, uncalibrated objects will act as objects with the Output Intent profile calibration (ie. will be converted to simulation profile with numbers change). That's why you probably encountered something like this: 

Should it be that way? I don't know, but it behaved consistently throughout the years (at least for me).

You should be able to test this with your own files via the Preflight tool (as you can remove the XMP metadata with the embedded output intent over there). 

Also, sorry about the assumption that your clients are sending you files with different export setting.

Best Regards, 

David