Government - Legality of Legal Document made in Livecycle with Usage Rights Enabled in Acrobat?

Forum|Forum|8 years ago
September 15, 2017
4 replies
2064 views

We are a state agency in charge of animal health. When cattle, for example, move from our state to another, it requires a certificate of veterinarian inspection (has info about the animals, where they are moving, and their health). Years ago an electronic health certificate was created by a sort of collaboration between states using LiveCycle. We use LiveCycle to customize a few things for each state and we enable usage rights in Acrobat Pro so veterinarians and their clinic's that fill out user agreement forms (not to distribute form, etc) can use Reader for free to fill out, sign, and email us these electronic certificates.

Right now less than half the states use this form (most state agencies still push paper). I am trying to get more states to use this electronic certificate of veterinarian inspection. However, several states are afraid to use this electronic form because they are worried it may somehow present legal problems (supposedly, a state was sued by Adobe in the past for misusing fillable forms, not this form). My question is, are there any legal problems with what was described? What are the limits and anything else I need to know to present to these other states?

Right now each state is making the form in LiveCycle, enabling the usage rights in Acrobat, and sending it to the veterinarians that sign up. The second question is, is it possible for one person to make all of the forms and enable the usage rights for each state without legal issues?

Answers will be presented to all states so please give as much detail as possible.

Thank you in advance!

PDF forms

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T

Test Screen Name

Legend

Adobe don't draw attention to these things. Or comment on their license terms. You might draw conclusions from being unable to find this in your specific license. But, personally I'd expect government organisations would normally use the product LiveCycle Reader Extensions, it was first invented for them! (The IRS specifically) And I believe EACH BODY who process forms would need their own license.

I speculate that staff in big companies are mostly forbidden from commenting on license terms (I'm free to say this because I don't work for Adobe and it's pure speculation). Because, if it comes to legal action "a staff member told me" is difficult ground. Companies want the EULA to be the definitive word. Even if they are wrong. And lawyers are perfectly happy to make a document which needs a team of lawyers to interpret it. Would Adobe's legal team even answer questions from your legal team? Probably only in connection with an action.

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michaelh33351014Author

Participating Frequently

Any good company trying to sell and support a product doesn't avoid the simple issues of how their product can be used. I should redact the word legal from my original post: "My question is, what are the limitations of enabling usage rights and anything else I need to know to present to these other states?" Thanks

T

Test Screen Name

Legend

Again not legal advice but you should consider that different states may use different versions or license models EACH with their own license terms. Here for example is the license for Acrobat X included with Creative Suite 6 https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/legal/licenses-terms/pdf/CS6.pdf

This includes the specific text I copy below

This may be what you are looking for.

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michaelh33351014Author

Participating Frequently

Thank you for your response. I am completely aware of the EULA for Acrobat X (Licenses and Terms of Use | Adobe), but no such wording can be found for Adobe Acrobat Pro DC?... Knowing what changed in the EULAs from earlier versions to current versions, with respect to the topic, would be nice.

T

Test Screen Name

Legend

Not a legal opinion: anyone who "enables usage rights in Acrobat" is surely in breach of the Acrobat license IF it limits to 500. They EACH need to enable rights using LiveCycle Reader Extensions (entirely different from LiveCycle Designer, which is why it's important to use the correct and full name of the product).

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michaelh33351014Author

Participating Frequently

Thank you for giving me your interpretation. This is exactly why I posted this. There are people, and a few states who take your stance and others who say that is incorrect (although it may have been correct in the past). There is documentation online. Can you please, point me towards anything current that says "500" that is relevant to my post? I even ran searches in Adobe's license agreements online and could not find "500" anywhere other than on these forums (nothing current written by Adobe employees/representatives). I have been told by our IT that it was in previous license agreements, but no is no longer there or is not relevant to what we are doing. This question was posted here simply because when I called Adobe, they told me I would get answers from them by posting it here and that seems to not be happening. How do I get Adobe to officially respond?

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gkaiseril

Inspiring

A copy of the EULA is included with Acrobat and Reader. You should have your legal advisor go over this file with you before posing qny question to Adobe's Legal Department as it specifies a number of points based upon your location.

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George_Johnson

Inspiring

The Acrobat License Agreement used to restrict in certain ways the use of documents that were enabled with Acrobat. Probably the most important restriction was for forms that were distributed to more than 500 recipients. In short, the licensee could use data from no more than 500 instances of the form that was returned to the licensee, and you could not enable forms for others. More recent versions of Acrobat do not restrict how many returned forms data can be used from, but I don't believe a licensee is allowed to create enabled forms for use by other organizations. You could supply a non-enabled form and someone in each organization that would like to distribute the form could enable it themselves with their licensed copy of Acrobat.