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Neluser
Neluser
Participating Frequently
April 30, 2020
Question

Reading difficulties with Apple Voice Over.

  • April 30, 2020
  • 4 replies
  • 9363 views

Reading difficulties with Apple Voice Over.

 


On the Mac OS (Apple Voice Over) , some PDF documents are not read correctly, for example: The reading order is not followed, not read by tags, words are read as numeric characters (numbers are read instead of words)

 

What can you advise to fix this problem?

Mac OS High Sierra  V10.13.6

This topic has been closed for replies.

4 replies

Neluser
NeluserAuthor
Participating Frequently
June 3, 2020

Hello, thanks for all your answers, the question about the voice overs is still open. We hope that Apple will fix this problem in the near future.

    Gijs Veyfeyken
    Gijs Veyfeyken
    Participating Frequently
    February 11, 2021

    I just opened a perfectly tagged PDF with VoiceOver in Acrobat Reader DC and Acrobat Pro. Both apps support alt-text, announce tables and heading levels. It looks like lists are not supported. I'm on macOS Big Sur.

    K
    keelym21893828
    Participant
    January 3, 2022

    You’re not in the PDF yet. Use the VoiceOver command to interact with an item:

    VO-Shift-Down Arrow
     
    VO stands for VoiceOver keys. It’s the combination of the control and option key.
    More commands:
     

    That does work to read each line one at a time. I was under the impression there was an option to read the entire document or at least the entire page at one time. 

    a_C_student16379412
    a_C_student16379412
    Inspiring
    April 30, 2020

    This is a beautiful example of the need for Universal Accessibility, i.e. conformance to ISO 14289 PDF/UA. Only when *every* AT tool for *every* platform and *every* PDF document rigourously conforms to the same set of rules can we expect an accessible PDF to be always read properly. Acrobat Pro is capable of producing PDF/UA conforming documents, but it takes a considerable amount of human knowledge, skill, practice, and effort. Adobe could do much to make it easier/more practical. That said, if a document is fully conforming with PDF/UA and is not read properly be a specific tool, the tool, not the document, is broken, and the tool maker needs to fix it. 

      Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
      Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
      Legend
      April 30, 2020

      Well said!

      Just like you can't wave a magic wand and end up with a WCAG-compliant website, you can't press a magic "easy button" and get a PDF/UA-complaint PDF or an EPUBcheck-compliant EPUB.

       

      Regardless of the media, you must have good tools, understand what accessibility is for that media, know how to use the tools correctly.

      There are no magic wands or easy buttons in life!

       

      |    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents ||    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |
        Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
        Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
        Legend
        April 30, 2020

        Try a different screen reader. Apple's free built-in Voice Over is notoriously under-functional.

        Here's what the American Federation for the Blind lists on their website: https://www.afb.org/blindness-and-low-vision/using-technology/assistive-technology-products/screen-readers. There are few for Apple iOS.

         

        |    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents ||    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |
          brennanyoung
          brennanyoung
          Participating Frequently
          April 30, 2020

          Apple have let their accessibility effort slip badly in recent years. However, the Mac does have an accessibility API, far better than the alternative on (say) Android, and whether or not it is ISO standard is quite irrelevant to content creators. The law in most developed nation jurisdictions mandates WCAG compliance, not ISO compliance, and the accessibility tree generated by Safari from well-formed HTML comes very, very close to ISO/IEC 40500:2012 compliance, so they clearly offer something for third parties to work with. Why does Acrobat Reader not use Apple's existing, though imperfect accessibility API?

          My main concern here is that Adobe, by omitting to mention a significant end-user shortcoming in its accessibility production docs, oversells both the portability and accessibility of PDF/UA aka. 'tagged PDF'. These 'features' are the very point of the format. They are the very reason why public institutions continue to use PDF - because it promises interoperability in its very name.

          You will be aware that thousands of people worldwide are currently engaged in PDF remediation for WCAG compliance, which recently became mandatory, and there is not one mention in Adobe's docs of these significant issues on the Mac platform. There is not even a temporary side note or caveat which might serve as fair warning. Example: we sent our PDFs off to a third party for an accessibility audit, and got failure tickets from the auditors because VoiceOver didn't recognise the document semantics. Evidently the auditors (supposedly experts) are not sufficiently aware of the problem either. And how would they ever discover it, unless it were mentioned somewhere official? Come on guys. If you could at least mention it in your docs, maybe Apple would get a few more bug reports. We all know they are more anxious than most about their brand value.

          BTW There is exactly one competitor for VoiceOver mentioned on the AFB page (i.e. a Mac based screen reader, not an iOS-based one). Magnilink iMax is primarily a screen magnifier, with only limited screen reader capabilities - i.e. it can 'speak selection', so if anything, it does an even worse job of interpreting document semantics than VoiceOver.

            brennanyoung
            brennanyoung
            Participating Frequently
            April 30, 2020

            (Human voice) just want to apologise for any ill feelings. I recognise that Adobe does what it can under the prevailing constraints. I consider it incredibly valuable that Adobe offers this forum for discussing problems openly, and not without cost or risk. Thank you for taking my concerns seriously.

              brennanyoung
              brennanyoung
              Participating Frequently
              April 30, 2020

              After considerable exploration, I have not been able to find any PDF viewer on the Mac platform which works properly with VoiceOver, especially including Acrobat Reader DC, but also Preview, Safari and all the plug-in PDF viewers designed for Mac web browsers, including Adobe's own browser extensions. I have reported bugs to Apple, Mozilla and the Chromium tracker, and started a Adobe discussions thread on the topic too. I will be very interested to see what (if any) replies may appear from Adobe here.

              It appears that none of the Mac-based PDF viewers generate an accessibility tree, which means that VoiceOver will give you the text nodes, but none of the semantics. So yes, hurrah, much of the text will get announced, but tags and read order seem to be completely ignored. I have tested with a number of tagged PDFs on Acrobat Reader. The Windows version does the right thing, and works with a wide range of assistive technologies. The Mac version does not. I suspect that this is not a mistake or a bug, but a consequence of outdated strategic priorities from the days before modern accessibility legislation was passed.

              This is an utterly dismal shortcoming in a nominally "portable" and "accessible" file format (PDF/UA). Adobe could (and really ought to) do more to improve this situation at a time when WCAG compliance is now mandatory for all public documents in North America, the EU and many other jurisdictions.

              At the very least, Adobe should be honest about the miserable accessibility support for tagged PDF on Mac in its accessibility authoring documentation, if only to manage expectations and protect its brand. Adobe should also urgently bring Acrobat Reader DC for Mac up to feature parity with the Windows version in this important area. Beyond the legal commitments, accessibility of PDF across platforms is a make-or-break feature for many users.

                Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
                Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com
                Legend
                April 30, 2020

                The lack of accurate, functional screen reading on Mac is an Apple deficiency, not Adobe's.

                And Apple's built-in Voice Over is an exceptionally poor text-to-speech application (can't call it a "screen reader" because of its near-total lack of user controls).

                 

                Adobe creates the PDF standards (ISO 32000 for PDF, and ISO 14289 for the PDF/UA subset which specifies the requirements for accessible PDFs). More details are at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF/UA and https://www.pdfa.org 

                 

                These are open standards, so any manufacturer of a "consuming application" (such as a screen reader or other assistive technology) can build their product to the specifications.

                 

                 

                Apple, it appears, has chosen to NOT build Voice Over to the ISO standards. So complain to Apple, not Adobe. Nearly the entire process of making compliant, accessible PDFs or consuming/using them on the Mac platform is terrible.

                 

                 

                |    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer, Trainer, & Technologist for Accessible Documents ||    PubCom |    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |
                  brennanyoung
                  brennanyoung
                  Participating Frequently
                  April 30, 2020

                  Thank you for your reply. As mentioned above, I have reported the issue to Apple, but I still maintain that Adobe has a responsibility to make such a significant shortcoming clear in its documentation about producing accessible PDFs. Right now, Adobe gives the impression that it will 'just work'.

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