Remove Digital Certificates so I can add bates numbering

[aamerj1216272]

I am trying to add bates numbering to a document (Document was signed in Docusign). But, Acrobat does not allow me to add the numbering because it is digitally signed. 

How can I:

Add bates numbering to a digitally signed document?

OR

Remove the Docusign digital certificates so that I can add the bates numbering?

[try67 · Accepted solution]

- You can't. The entire point of a digital signature is to prevent the file from being edited.

- You might be able to invalidate the signature and then edit the file, but I'm not sure if that will even work on files signed using DocuSign. At least not using Adobe software.

[try67 · Accepted solution]

- You can't. The entire point of a digital signature is to prevent the file from being edited.

- You might be able to invalidate the signature and then edit the file, but I'm not sure if that will even work on files signed using DocuSign. At least not using Adobe software.

[bdebes]

Dear aamerjaved, I am having the exact same problem.  Did you ever find a solution?

[aamerj1216272]

I could not. As I recall, I had to add separate text.

[bdebes]

Yes, you can add bates numbering or exhibit stickers to a digitally signed document.  It involves a few steps, but it can be done very easily.  I'll walk you through it.

1.  Open the pdf file with the digital signature > Go to tools > Click on Export PDF > Click on More formats > Choose Postscript > Click on export > Save the .ps file.
Once this is done;
2.  Go to tools > Click on Create pdf > Select the .ps file > Click on Create. Add the bates numbers/exhibit stickers.  Save the pdf file.  

Let me know if this helps!

PS  I am an attorney who had the same problem you were experiencing.  The foregoing solution was received from a very nice and patient Adobe customer support agent. 

[try67]

Quick question: Is the new file still digitally signed?

[bdebes]

Yes, it does not effect the signature at all.  It simply allows you to add the bates stamp or exhibit sticker on a previously signed document.

[try67]

Does it show up under the Signatures panel, or do you just see it on the page?

[try67]

I've tested it, and as expected the signature is gone. What's left is just a flattened image of it. The new file is not really signed.

[Test Screen Name]

This is not a clever trick to edit a signed document, it's a simple way of destroying the signature so you can edit. If the signature was of no importance, that's fine. But SOMEONE maybe went to the trouble of adding a legally binding signature and may consider you have done something wrong by destroying their signature.

[Thom Parker]

I think that bdebes is misunderstanding "Digital Certificate".  A "Digital Certificate" creates a unique hash of the PDF document. This hash is used to determine whether or not the document has changed since it was signed.  So, you cannot make any changes to a document that has been signed with a "Digital Certificate", without invalidating that document. And stripping out the "Digital Certificate" defeats the purpose of signing it in the first place.

If you need to add bates numbers or exhibit stamps, then you'll need to start the process over, from before it was signed.

[bdebes]

I have just 'double-checked' my instructions above and they work.  It does NOT destroy/remove the digital signature.  But let me clarify my instructions a little bit:

1.  Open the pdf file with the digital signature > Go to tools > Click on Export PDF > Click on More formats > Choose Postscript > Click on export > Save the .ps file to your desktop or somewhere easy to fine it.
Once this is done;
2.  Go to tools > Click on Create pdf > Select the .ps file > Click on Create. Add the bates numbers/exhibit stickers.  Save the pdf file.  

[try67]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong, and this is bad advice.

Here's how to see that the resulting file is NOT digitally signed.

Open the original file and go to the Signatures panel on the left. You'll see your signature profile appearing there.

Follow the instructions you provided and view the same panel in the new file. You'll see it's empty. The reason is that the file is no longer signed, not really.

If you want proof I can provide a Before and After file, as well as the PostScript file used to create the After file.

[bdebes]

Try67, the digital signature still appears on the document even after the bates number is inserted.  If you are saying that the "certificate" no longer appears, then yes I agree.  But for those of us who simply need to insert a bates number or exhibit sticker to a digitally signed document, this method works perfectly.  But I see your point that the 'certificate' no longer appears.  

[try67]

The "certificate" IS the digital signature. Anything else is just a decoration. I can take that "signature" and copy it to my file and pretend that you signed it. How would you prove me wrong? The certificate can be validated using a public key. That's what makes it a digital signature.

You might as well scan your hand-written signature and place it on the page. It has about the same validity (maybe even less so...) as what's left after you "re-fry" the file using your instructions, and it would be much easier to do.

[Thom Parker]

So bdebes, what exactly are "You" trying to achieve with the digital signature?  Because the entire point of the "Digital Certificate" is to verify integrity and authenticity of the document.   When you remove the signature you loose these qualities. The document can no longer be trusted. So there was no point in signing it in the first place. So what is it you think you are achieving?  

[Test Screen Name]

"the digital signature still appears on the document" this is terrible, terrible advice. Certificates are ALL that matters, so what you say is completely wrong. If you don't know what a certificate is, then you shouldn't be trying to edit signed documents !!!

[Test Screen Name]

"I have just 'double-checked' my instructions above and they work" No, they CAN'T work.

I think you may be making the terrible, but common, mistake, of assuming the digital signature is something you see on the page, and so long as you can see it, you assume it's signed. No, no, no. Don't look at it, don't trust it, don't give it any consideration.

[sp699]

I was not able to reproduce bedebes' workaround, and ended up printing and scanning some DocuSign documents so they could be Bates stamped and produced in discovery.

I would suggest that there is no real cause for concern when litigators find a way to annotate certificated documents so they can be used conveniently as exhibits in lawsuits. No one who produces a copy of a document in discovery, whether on paper or electronically, is claiming it's the actual legal instrument; they're just saying that the copy looks the same as the real thing.

[E A Gonzalez]

That is what I have to do!  Print it, scan it, bate stamp it, then shred the copy I just printed! I wish there was a "work- around" for this common issue.  Don't want to change anything on the document, just need to apply Bate-stamps.  I appreciate your response.

EAG

[medovel · Accepted solution]

You can also just print to "Microsoft Print to PDF" print driver, hence skipping the printing and scanning process.

Yes, the digital signature is destroyed, and the document now only represents or testifies to the existence of a digitally signed document (which presumably could be produced if requested/needed).

[Tiffany37218252nbtk]

This has never worked for me. When printing to pdf, it doesn't let you and produces some sort of weird text file. Physically printing and rescanning the document is still the only workaround I can find.

[megpayslee]

This has also not worked for me.  When I use Microsoft Print to PDF, it creates a Text file.

[Lashanda273010600nep]

Thank you so much!!! It worked for me. 

[Katie3890343671ce]

Thank you so much!!! This worked perfectly. I have sent these instructions out to everyone in our firm!