Voxengo effect only modifies two channels out of five in multichannel

Report · Jun 28, 2017

In Adobe Audition CS6, I have opened a five-channel multichannel audio track in the waveform editor. (It's extracted from my own personal copy of a DVD-Audio disc, because I like to keep all the audio from all my discs on my PC.) I am trying to change the EQ of the track using the Voxengo CurveEQ plugin, which I have been using in stereo for years. However, when I hit "Apply", the Voxengo CurveEQ effect only modifies the first two channels. The other three remain the same.

I asked Voxengo and they said it must be a problem with Audition. So I tried doing the same thing in Audacity and it worked without any problem. So it appears that Voxengo is correct and it's something to do with Audition.

Any ideas?

Report · Jun 28, 2017

I think that you may need a newer version of Audition to be able to access all channels of a multichannel VST plugins.

Report · Jun 28, 2017

Oh, really? That's a disappointment if it's the case. The in-built effects seem to work across all channels of the multichannel so it's a pity if something's stopping VST plugins from doing the same thing. I'll just have to use Audacity unless anyone thinks there's a way around this.

Many thanks for answering.

Report · Jun 28, 2017

Well, I just downloaded the free trial version of Adobe Audition CC and tried it and exactly the same thing happens - the Voxengo CurveEQ VST plugin only modifies the first two channels out of five. (This is in the waveform editor.)

I then opened Audacity (which I downloaded earlier today) and tried the same thing with the same files and same plugin and Audacity modified all five channels without any problems.

I'm baffled. Are CC and CS6 unable to do this seemingly straightforward task or is something else going on here?

Report · Jun 28, 2017

I don't have Voxengo here, but have you clicked on the Audition plugin routing icon on the RHS at the top (next to the I button) to see how it is routed, and whether there's anything you need to change there?

Report · Jun 28, 2017

In fact, it gets weirder. With both CS6 and CC, if I try to use the plugin on a five-channel track, the plugin only works on the first two channels, as I already said. It doesn't work on the remaining three channels - but what it DOES do is, it shifts the audio in those remaining three channels about 0.5 seconds to the left!

Report · Jun 28, 2017

Sorry, SteveG, I didn't see your post before posting my last. I think you're on to something there. I have never seen that button before in all my years with Audition. Sure enough, when I click on it, there are five channels listed BUT channel one is marked left (in and out), channel two is marked right (in and out) and all the others are marked Bypass. If I try to change Bypass to left or right, which are the only options, it disables the existing left or right. This is all new to me and I've no idea what I'm doing so if you can help me at all...

Report · Jun 28, 2017

Sorry Steve, I am one post behind you all the time! So it doesn't work in 5.0? I will try a 5.1 and get back to you.

Report · Jun 28, 2017

I just tried with a 5.1 track and the plugin worked fine in CC. When I tried in CS6, it only worked on the first two tracks - the other four disappeared!

So as far as I can see:

1. CS6 can't be used for multichannel with third-party VST plugins.

2. CC can be used with multichannel, but not in all multichannel. As you say, it works in 5.1 but not in 5.0. I haven't tried other channel configurations..

I suspect it's not Voxengo's fault because as I mentioned up-thread, the Voxengo plugin works without any problems in Audacity, regardless of the number of channels.

Many thanks indeed for solving the riddle, Steve. Hopefully the devs will fix it one day and I can always use Audacity as a stop-gap.

Thanks again,

Richard

Report · Jun 28, 2017

The moderation system kicked in, and there's a reply to yours that you can't see yet. Voxengo actually works fine in the current release, all channels. But you are probably correct about CS6 - the multi-channel stuff was a work in progress at that point.

Report · Jun 28, 2017

As I suggested in the first reply to the OP.

Report · Jun 28, 2017

It's getting late here in the UK so I'll have to stop now but I did try various multichannels in CC and they all worked except this 5.0 album. In the routeing, it only shows left and right and all the other channels are bypass. So I don't know if it's something to do with this one album or what. Maybe tomorrow I will send you a link to a sample in Dropbox and see if you have any luck with it. Many thanks for all your help and I will say goodnight for now.

Report · Jun 29, 2017

Edit: please could you ignore all of the following post and see my next post, below it!

I am attaching a sample from the troublesome album. It has a total of five channels - it is 5.0, with no LFE channel. When I try to apply Voxengo CurveEQ to this album in CC, routeing only shows for the first two channels and the other three are shown as "Bypass". When I apply the effect, it modifies the first two channels only - the remaining three are not modified but the audio is displaced about 0.5 seconds to the left!

CC has no problem with my 5.1 albums (total of six channels.) It also has no problem with my quad (4.0) albums - but I notice that in the quad albums, the channels are padded out with empty channels to make a total of six channels. So I wonder if CC only works with six channels or even numbers of channels, and that you can only edit an odd number of channels if they are padded out with an empty channel to make an even number? Just to repeat, I have no problem applying Voxengo Curve EQ to the troublesome album in Audacity so at this point this looks to me like a quirk with CC.

Here is the link to the sample. It is in WAV format so may take a while to download:

Click here

Report · Jun 29, 2017

Thanks to your help, I have found the answer! Needless to say, CC is innocent and it's all my own fault. The surprise is that CS6 is innocent, too!

The reason I could not get it to work in CC is because CC is 64 bit and I did not have the 64 bit VST plugin in my folder - but by chance I did have the 64-bit VST3 plugin in my folder and so CC had automatically installed that. For some reason, all these problems are because the VST3 plugin for Voxengo CurveEQ doesn't always seem to work properly in multichannel mode in CC but when I downloaded and installed the VST plugin, it worked fine. However, I did also find that it's necessary to select the correct routeing in the Voxengo CurveEQ plugin interface - you have to switch from stereo to multichannel.

Out of curiosity I then went back to CS6 and tried the VST plugin. At first, as before, the first two channels changed but the other three disappeared. Then I remembered I had not changed the routeing in the Voxengo interface. When I did that, to my amazement, all five channels were modified in CS6 as well!

So I am very happy.

In short, you CAN apply the Voxengo CurveEQ effect (and presumably any other third-party VST plugin) to five-channel multichannel in CS6 and CC provided the following two conditions are met:

1. You can only use the VST plugin. The VST3 plugin doesn't seem to work with five channels, though it seems to be OK with 5.1.

2. You must remember to change the routeing from stereo to multichannel within the Voxengo interface.

Many thanks indeed for all your help. I would never have found the answer otherwise.

Report · Jun 29, 2017

richard-ec2 wrote
1. You can only use the VST plugin. The VST3 plugin doesn't seem to work with five channels, though it seems to be OK with 5.1.

It does, but not with your file! There's still a mystery about that, and that's the one I hope that the devs will look at.

Report · Jun 29, 2017

Thanks, SteveG. All very mysterious. I should caution against placing too much reliance on the tagging because the tagging on the version I uploaded was done by me after ripping, using the Mp3tag app. Not only that, but I "borrowed" the tags for this album from a two-channel version which I already had on my PC. So that could perhaps have introduced the two-channel metadata that you observed.

Having said that, this problem still arises in exactly the same way even if I use a track in its un-tagged state, meaning a track that has not been tagged by me after ripping. So it's not my tagging that's creating the problem.

I will be happy to help in any way I can. The disc is this one - there are some notes and credits if you scroll down:

Link to Discogs page

I extracted the audio from the DVD Audio disc using DVD Audio Extractor on my PC, then tagged it using Mp3tag.

I should just mention that I keep all my music on my PC and the only reason for ripping this disc was to store the music on my PC with the rest of my collection. I own and keep all the discs I rip and do not share the discs or rips with anyone else.

Report · Jun 29, 2017

richard-ec2 wrote
Thanks, SteveG. All very mysterious. I should caution against placing too much reliance on the tagging because the tagging on the version I uploaded was done by me after ripping, using the Mp3tag app. Not only that, but I "borrowed" the tags for this album from a two-channel version which I already had on my PC. So that could perhaps have introduced the two-channel metadata that you observed.
Having said that, this problem still arises in exactly the same way even if I use a track in its un-tagged state, meaning a track that has not been tagged by me after ripping. So it's not my tagging that's creating the problem.

The troublesome metadata isn't in the MP3 tagging - it's either in the RIFF or XMP data sets I think.

Report · Jun 29, 2017

I have just looked at the file info in MediaInfo and although it contains only five channels MediaInfo identifies it as a 6 channel file. That might cause some problems with software correctly identifying the contents.

Report · Jun 29, 2017

Yes, perhaps there is some confusion over the number of channels on this particular disc. In reality, there are only five and the booklet says:

"Technical note: For creative reasons, the surround mix was done in 5.0; the LFE is not utilized."

Even that's ambiguous. There's a difference between "not utilized" and "not there". I've seen plenty of discs where channels are not utilised and yet are still there, completely empty. But in this case, the LFE channel is simply not there.

Report · Jun 30, 2017

ryclark wrote
I have just looked at the file info in MediaInfo and although it contains only five channels MediaInfo identifies it as a 6 channel file. That might cause some problems with software correctly identifying the contents.

It doesn't explain why, in the Audition routing panel for Voxengo CurveEQ, you only get the option to return to either the left or the right, and only one instance of each is available. All five channels are listed in the routing, but the return options are incorrect, and make no sense at all. And it really isn't clear where the root cause of this is...

Report · Jun 29, 2017

It does the same thing here with VST3, FWIW. Which immediately makes me think that it's a metadata issue. It looks as though the file was originally created as stereo, but incorrectly converted to a five-channel one, carrying the two-channel metadata with it. I'm suspicious, as there are two more resource events that don't show in the file history (I can only see two of them), and I have no idea of what the others are. I can't, within Audition, see anywhere that this data can be altered (despite a heck of a lot of it being available), so the devs need to look at your file, I think. Hopefully they're alerted...

One thing I will say though is that Audition has always been very fussy about VSTs being written to the spec. There are a number of shortcuts that some programmers have used in the past, and they've been caught out and had to rewrite their apps correctly. It's just possible here that Audition is interpreting the data correctly, and that Audacity is ignoring it - but giving you the result you want in the process!

The more I think about it, the more I think that Voxengo have a few questions to answer about the VST3 that doesn't work with your file, and the file itself, as it does work with a locally-created 5 channel file.

Report · Jun 28, 2017

richard-ec2 wrote
Sorry, SteveG, I didn't see your post before posting my last. I think you're on to something there. I have never seen that button before in all my years with Audition. Sure enough, when I click on it, there are five channels listed BUT channel one is marked left (in and out), channel two is marked right (in and out) and all the others are marked Bypass. If I try to change Bypass to left or right, which are the only options, it disables the existing left or right. This is all new to me and I've no idea what I'm doing so if you can help me at all...

Exactly what file are you starting with? If you start with a 5.1 there should be six channels showing, and all of the returns should be the same as all the sends - this works with 5.1, anyway. But if you are getting only two channels available for a return, that looks a little suspicious...

Oh, and an update on the 5 channel situation - it didn't work because Voxengo is running in trial mode and muted itself! I've tried it again, and it works fine as a five-channel plugin.

Report · Jun 28, 2017

richard-ec2 wrote
Well, I just downloaded the free trial version of Adobe Audition CC and tried it and exactly the same thing happens - the Voxengo CurveEQ VST plugin only modifies the first two channels out of five. (This is in the waveform editor.)

Okay, I downloaded the trial of CurveEQ and tried it on a 5.1 file in the latest release version of Audition. It modifies all the channels...

Report · Jun 28, 2017

...but I think I know what's going on, as it doesn't work correctly on a 5-channel file, even though it does on a 5.1. Now, I don't know who's fault this is, quite frankly - need the devs to look at it and see why. Could just as easily be Voxengo's fault as Audition's though. The routing all looks correct, FWIW.

Voxengo effect only modifies two channels out of five in multichannel

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