Using Virtual Instruments in Adobe Audition CC CS (MIDI)

[MusoCity]

I'll just be quick to mention this for anyone interested in that four letter word (MIDI), and get out of here quick as I only just escaped last time with my life

Join the Image-Line Forum and download free MiniHost 32/64 Win or Mac use IL Minihost Modular (FX).dll

http://forum.image-line.com/viewtopic.php?t=123031

Set AU start time to 1:2.00 to sync bars n beats to vsti's like EZDrummer EZKeys RapidComposer etc..

Load IL Minihost Modular (FX).dll into a track with a wav or empty wav

The piano roll editor don't sync to the host so you can use MidiLooper piano roll 32/64 Win Mac Insert Piz Here - midiLooper

midiOut 32bit Win Mac use JBridge for 64 Insert Piz Here - midiOut can be used for MTC sync to another audio app (but Mac midiOut lacks MTC)

midiIn 32bit Win Mac use JBridge for 64 Insert Piz Here - midiIn

You can Render it by recording the VI to another track.

There is a Re-wire VSTi  ReWire VST - VST plugin with ReWire works with midi.

You can also use a VSTi like RapidComposer Music Prototyping and Automated Music Composition

If you come up way a better way to have midi support, please post it here for those that keep asking for that four letter word.

It is the same Au Grey

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

And, moving swiftly on...

[Charles VW]

Thanks for the info Bob.

[Bob Howes]

For the OP, an interesting solution.  My personal way of incorporating MIDI is to create my MIDI sounds in Ableton, convert them to wave files, then transfer to Audition for editing and mixing..  I know of others who work in a similar way using a variety of other software for the MIDI portion.

As you probably gather, this is a "hot topic" with users pretty split on whether they want MIDI implementation in Audition or not.

[MusoCity]

For anyone else contacting me about RapidComposer VSTi here is an example of RC sending back to Kontakt.

Remember to Save/Load your connection Graph in MiniHost.

Ableton has ReWire support, you can try the ReWireVSTi in MiniHost.

[MusoCity]

Another way is Blue Cat's PatchWork - Fully Configurable Plug-Ins Chainer / Standalone Host or Plug-In

There are Win/Mac Demo Downloads on the right you can try.

[MusoCity]

AU ReWire Reaper

[Mindshaker]

Was that English? This did not answer my question. This is the only thing that google search brings up on the issue. Did I join a conversation in the middle? Does or does not Adobe Audition support VST instruments?

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

Audition does not support VST instruments, no. The limited support there was was dropped after Audition 3.

[Bone Church]

Sorry. I know I'm hopping in way way late on this, but do you have any idea why this is. Also, on my current version in the effectts rack drop down VST and VST3 still show up. Is that an error?

Why would they leave that there if they aren't supported?

What does Adobe think Audition should be used for? Without VST or MIDI support, I'm curious why they even offer multi-track recording.

Could you lead me to a tutorial on incorporating EZ Drummer 2 into Audition?

Thanks!

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

VST and VST3 are supported; VSTi and presumably VST3i (if that's actually a thing) are not - so no, it's not an error. Adobe thinks, with considerable justification, that Audition is primarily an audio editor, used in every radio station around the world; and increasingly as an audio post editor for sweetening video production, hence its increasing level of integration with Premiere.

Since EZDrummer lists Audition as unsupported, I don't think you'll find any tutorials about this.

Audition is a multitrack audio editor, and doesn't even attempt to cut it as music creation software, as such. An attempt to include MIDI was made back when Audition 3 was introduced, but there were problems with it, and at the time the conclusion was that they'd always be playing catch-up with the established software titles, so it was dropped in favour of a dual-platform redevelopment that would ultimately integrate better with Premiere. As a multitrack recorder and editor of live music (which is how I primarily use it) it's pretty good; not all music by any means requires MIDI. Audition 3 also had Rewire - which if it could be got to work would be a good compromise as far as MIDI is concerned, but once again it wasn't trouble-free and was dropped.

But you have to remember that Adobe is primarily very much a visuals company. When they first took over Syntrillium and Cool Edit, many of us thought that it would be the end of it - we thought that all they wanted was the brains of the development team, so that they could improve the audio in Premiere. But no, they persevered, and it's still here with many of its original features intact, for which we should be grateful. But its development is very much driven by the big ticket users - the ones with thousands of seats. What they want inevitably gets priority, because that's what pays the wages.

[dayoftheschmeckel]

This is incredibly short sighted IMHO. Adobe Audition is a very powerful DAW. I am certain that it would rapildy find its place in the music orientated community if it had some MIDI capability. At the very least a Master / Slave / SMPTE capability so that creators can use other audio sources and incorporate those in the multitrack environment. I would challenge the comments made here where the phrase 'big ticket' users is bandied around. Audition is being advertised as a DAW and ireally is a wonderful platform that has come on leaps and bounds since Adobe bought CoolEdit. In fact it was my very first introduction to digital audio recording. My personal opinion is that Adobe could win a very significant slice of the audio pie if it made some concessions to music creators like myself - and there are many more like me.That number would easily match the number of viideo or radio ppoducers. If that is not a signficant market, then it represents a loss for Adobe in very considerable financial terms. 

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

Audition had MIDI in version three. It didn't really catch on at all, and was promptly dropped in the next version.

[defaultmobzmfe46pav]

I've been a user since the old days, having started out with Cool Edit Pro.

I don't believe midi support didn't catch on, but rather that it was never properly implemented.

Lack of support for VSTi like EZdrummer seriously impairs the overall recording experience in Audition in my opinion. I record lots of ideas for my band and use EZdrummer, bass etc. to try out the basic band feel when i have recorded a guitar riff. Then later the real drummer and bass player can do their parts using their own equipment and in their own time. Especially in the present time people are not always working together and at the same time. To be able to use a midi drummer and so on makes life so much easier. I believe Adobe has forgot about what made Cool Edit Pro and later Audition work in the first place. And that is musicians, not radio stations and professional video editors...just simple folks making great music in their home studio. With pain in my heart I have recently started using a different DAW than Audition, just for the VSTi support. I kinda hate it, but I think I'll have no choice than to stick with it as I don't expect Adobe to move back in the direction of Audition being a proper home studio recording program. Then again...here's hoping...

[defaultmobzmfe46pav]

And as for the financial part that the previous poster has commented on. I couldn't agree more. The home recording artists of today (partly students) are the big ticket users of tomorrow. If I stop using Audition it would cost Adobe 5 paying subscribers. That's not a lot, but I'm sure there are (and I know of a few more) more people just like me out there. Adobe could stand to make quite a lot of money if they would target the home recording studio market a bit more. Audition is actually quite close to competitors like Pro Tools and Cubase, but it now competes against free options like Tracktions and the likes because they have better VST and VSTi support. That is such a shame, given the potential of Audition. So to finish this monologue again...here's hoping...

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

You'd have thought that after 11-12 years of this, people would have got the message...

1) It was radio that made Cool Edit, not music.

2) Big ticket users are corporations, with seats apparently running into the millions. Today's bedroom music artistes do not become corporations. If you think they do, please name one.

3) Audition is not music creation software. It may be capable of music recording, but that's not the same thing.

4) The moment free options become available, there's no market anyway.

You may find it hard to believe, but Adobe is pretty savvy. If they really thought they were losing out on a market that they could make money out of, they'd be there. Some of the developers would like Audition to 'do' music - they've said so. But also they want to get paid at the end of the month, and the hard economic reality is that for this to happen, you do what the man in the suit says.

[defaultmobzmfe46pav]

Hi Steve,

It took me a while, but here's my reaction. First off, the fact that this discussion is heading into it's thirteenth year doesn't mean that anyone did not get the message. The best discussions just take time.

You presented four arguments, let's look at those.

The first is something I must admit to have missed. Back in the day everyone I knew was using Cool Edit for music, but I take your word for it if you say radio was the main market.

Your second argument also makes sense, but is not without problems. As it is now, Audition is part of a suite that is primarily sold to corporations. Most of which probably do not end up using Audition at all (my employer being an example of that). What sells most copies of, let's say Cubase or Pro Tools, is probably the free marketing on YouTube and the likes. Why do millions of people want to buy that software, which is not cheap? Well, probably because they see it being used by great musicians in semi-professional home studio's and want to be that guy or girl as well. These musicians aren't big corporations in the traditional sense, but they do get millions of views and represent a significant potential market value.

Third. Audition is in my opinion a great piece of music creation software. Recording is smooth and easy and VST support makes for infinite mixing and mastering options. So my question here is why do you feel the need to label Audition as not being music creation software while it's more than capable of (also) being just that?

And number four. Most great DAW's have free starting options. The purpose being to get people enthusiastic about the program and have them spend their money on it at some point. That business model seems to be working well enough for quite a few DAW developers. So I don't see the absence of a market, it's merely a different way of looking at it.

Lastly. I know Adobe is a big company and quite a succesfull one. So yes, the man in the suit is probably competent and savvy. But does the man in the suit know everything? Probably not. Maybe the man in the suit knows how to do business with big ticket corporations, but not so much how to tap into a more modern market driven by social media and less traditional groups of customers. Just thinking out loud here... In any case I still believe there might very well be a bigger market out there for Audition then the folks at Adobe might think. But maybe I'm wrong. A few relatively simple additions to Audition could do the trick if you ask me. And with that we are back where we started. Add VSTi support and give it a try as a standalone product. You just might have a winner on your hands. I would gladly be your first paying customer.

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

In terms of what people generally mean by 'music creation software' Audition is missing most of the tools. And not just the MIDI ones either... and it's not 'simple' to add anything to Audition any more, because of the level of integration of the digital engine with other parts of the CC suite. I have been told that it would require a significant amount of work, and that it doesn't appear to be what the corporate users want. And this isn't guesswork on Adobe's part - they send people out to talk to their big-ticket users on a very regular basis, and that in fact is why they are a successful company.

You are probably right about a more modern market approach in one sense, but when it comes to sales, all the one-off musos in the world aren't going to get close to the amount of money large corporate users put in - we're talking about millions of seats that are actually being paid for now, rather than guesswork as to what a small bunch of musos might do - developing for them is how you fail to keep your market, and that's what pays people's salaries. You might not like it, but these are hard economic realities.

[defaultmobzmfe46pav]

Hi Steve,

Thanks once again for your reply. I won't bother you too much with this discussion anymore, but here's one last addition.

I used the term music creation software in response to you doing the same. I guess you are right though about Audition not being music creation software. But that's beside the point. The comparison was made between Audition as a DAW and other DAW's on the market (ProTools, Cubase and even cheaper options like Tracktion).

Audition is in my humble opinion (among other things) a DAW that is almost on par with all of those, where it not for the lack of VSTi integration. That the majority of big ticket users do not primarily use it as such does not mean there isn't any potential in other segments of the market for Audition.

And that brings me to my last point. Your argument seems to based on the assumption that a choice needs to be made between the current big ticket users (and I get the significance of that very well) and the, arguably more modern, market of individual users, home musicians, (semi-)professional recordings artist and the likes. I think that reasoning is flawed. Audition could tap into both markets at the same time if some extra features would be included. I once again take your word for it if you say that adding VSTi support is by no means easy, I'm not a programmer. But still, even if it would take some time and money, surely Adobe would have the expertise to pull it off. And I believe the investment would pay off in sales. Market research would presumably prove me right, but that is, I must admit, a bit of guesswork on my side. So to conclude, my proposition would be to keep developing for the current market (you are very right about that), but to also develop for an addiotional part of the market without reducing the atractiveness of Audition for the current users. That would add customers instead of scaring them away. And from what I know about hard economic realities, that pays even more salaries.

Thanks for the contructive conversation.

[R Neil Haugen]

As this discusssion really hinges on how one "sees" Adobe, I think I'll add a rather more depth-driven perspective.

Adobe is in one way three companies.

• There's the one we users deal with, that makes apps for users to do stuff. The CC apps, Premiere Pro, Audition, Animator et al;
• There's the 'sign' or document company, Acrobat and all the tools and systems for Big Corpa to handle documents from creation/tracking/verification/archiving. Bigger than most of "use" would ever think.
• There's the Metrics company ... that designs/creates/provides/sells applications and systems to other Big Corpa on using metrics to determine user needs/experiences and translate that into corporate decision making processes.

Most of us "regular users" have knowledge of the first one, and some awareness of the second. But aren't even aware the third section of Adobe Corporate even exists. And that third section is all-important really.

Because Adobe uses their own entire company to drive and test their Metrics work. It's the Marketing & Experience staffers of Adobe that work for the metrics operation. And when you start to get a handle on who really runs who, you realize an M&E person in a middling position, but with 'input' on say a CC product team's direction ... really has control over that direction. As the managment above the teams (all within the M&E staff) will base decisions on the metrics they have gathered and analyzed.

And that upper management that makes final decisions, is M&E. Most assuredly of course, with "input" from the various product teams. "Input" ... a very nice word, that ... but doesn't actually say much, does it? ... Hmmm ...

ALL of Adobe is over-seen by the M&E departement staff and managers. Which is why some decisions on how "our" apps progress through time are rather ... puzzling. The reality is, the M&E people divine from their Metrics what we users really, truely, need, as opposed to what we only think we want. And they are absolutely confident in their ability to do so.

And if you "divine" perhaps ... sarcasm ... there, well, I won't say you're wrong. I've been told by product staffers at times, what M&E hath decreed their users really need, the list of top changes needed to their app. And wow ... between (as Steve noted) coroporate clients needs driving part of the equation, and the M&E metrics driving other parts ... the "top items needing changing" list can be completely ... weird. To a regular user.

So in this case, the Audition team can talk with users at NAB or MAX or IBC, live events where we actually can meet with them. Listen to our wants/desires/needs, and discuss how they would be implemented. Or why they would probably not be implemented. And do some explaining of things, as Steve has noted in his rather well put explanations. I've been through a lot of those discussions at NAB and MAX.

But it doesn't in the end matter, really, because the M&E people will make the decisions based on their metrics. Period. And then, the teams get their marching orders from M&E, and well ... march.

The one place we users can actually have some effect on the all-important metrics is via the UserVoice system. That actually gets collated and sent up the line to the M&E people to peruse as part of their gathered metrics.

And yes, I've had rather direct experience with M&E staffers. I've been through both in-person and online individual "discussion" sessions on directions and needs for a couple apps, and also one in-person discussion at NAB over how people get started in mogrt creation and deployment.

The people doing the study are all M&E, with barely any knowledge of the app involved. They work from a list of questions, oft phrased as "between a tool called X and a tool called Y, which action would you expect that tool to make: A, B, or C ... "

When I've often had to explain that, well, actually, none of the above, it would for this reason seem to be doing C-E instead, they go ... "Oh ... intersting. That was what, C-E ... which has to do with what in the app? Oh, yes, we'll have to get clarification on that point for further study .. "

It is rather ... intriguing ... to be a bug studied by a Superior Intellect.

Neil

[defaultmobzmfe46pav]

Hi Neil,

Thank you for your addition. Very helpful and clarifying insights.

I now know exactly what my place as a customer is within the hivemind called Adobe. For an autonomously functioning bug wit a rather superior intellect of it's own, such as myself, that is about as fascinating as it is depressing.

Thanks once again for the constructive dialogue (that goes for Steve as well).

Cheers!

[R Neil Haugen]

For an autonomously functioning bug wit a rather superior intellect of it's own, such as myself, that is about as fascinating as it is depressing.

Gee, you feel that way too? I've been around the Adobesphere enough over the years to get some fascinating glimpses. In all, I've found most of the people working in the product lines ... Pr, Ae, Au, Animator et al ... to be very interesting, very good people. Who are all passionate users of the products they work on.

And having been around the M&E folks also ... that's ... a very, very different experience. They are a very specialized crowd, shall we say. I felt like I was more an Interesting Datapoint than a Human. Similar in some ways to having a discussion with a reallly high-end theoretical mathematics whiz, I suppose.

Neil