Inspiring

Question

When I bounce to new track and export, good original files become distorted.

Forum|Forum|7 years ago
October 5, 2018
3 replies
3900 views

I am editing an audiobook in Adobe Audition. I record in Multitrack mode, which is a requirement of a Punch & Roll plugin I am using (created by @772401 Baldree). To get a clean WAV file of the fully assembled chapter, I bounce to a new track, then export that to a new WAV file. I make a copy of that, and do my editing and mastering on that version.

I noticed that when I moved from Multitrack mode to Waveform, the overall level jumps up, and the audio actually sounds cleaner, less muddy. BUT -- I have just discovered that somewhere in this process, sections of the file are DISTORTED. Unfortunately, I am realizing this after hours of editing, cleaning up the voice by removing breaths, mouth noises, background noise, etc. A lot of work.

My first question is, WHY does the level jump when bouncing, and HOW can I prevent the distortion from being added?

Second question: Having completed 52 chapters, many with distortion, is there a way to repair that? I have tried Diagnostics/de-clipper, which works, but pushes the level down too far. When I raise it back up, the distortion returns. I have had some success applying the Auto Heal effect, but that has to be done in tiny chunks and takes too long.

Any ideas?

Thanks very much,

Rob

Rob Wilson

UnAuthorized Films

Audio Editing hardware/Software

Hardware Overview:

Model Name: iMac

Model Identifier: iMac14,4

Processor Name: Intel Core i5

Processor Speed: 1.4 GHz

Number of Processors: 1

Total Number of Cores: 2

L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB

L3 Cache: 3 MB

Memory: 8 GB

Boot ROM Version: IM144.0189.B00

SMC Version (system): 2.21f92

Serial Number (system): C02PC3LJFY0T

Hardware UUID: C20D7D89-56EB-59A6-B813-49158E1B037C

PreSonus AudioBox USB 96 Audio InterfaceTech Specs

Computer Connectivity:	USB
Form Factor:	Portable, Desktop
Simultaneous I/O:	2 x 2
Number of Preamps:	2
Phantom Power:	Yes
A/D Resolution:	24-bit/96kHz
Built In DSP/FX:	20 Native effect plug-ins
Analog Inputs:	2 x XLR-1/4" combo (mic/instrument)
Analog Outputs:	2 x 1/4" (main out)
Headphones:	1 x 1/4"
MIDI I/O:	In/Out
USB:	1 x Type B
Software:	Studio One 4 Artist DAW included
OS Requirements - Mac:	OS X 10.8.5 or later, Intel Core i3 or higher, 4GB RAM or more recommended
OS Requirements - PC:	Windows 7 SP1 64-bit or later, Intel Core i3 or higher, 8GB RAM or more recommended
Bus Powered:	Yes
Depth:	1.75"
Width:	5.5"
Height:	5.5"
Weight:	5 lbs.
Manufacturer Part Number:	AUDIOBOX USB 96

Intel 8 Series Chipset:

Vendor: Intel

Product: 8 Series Chipset

Link Speed: 6 Gigabit

Negotiated Link Speed: 3 Gigabit

Physical Interconnect: SATA

Description: AHCI Version 1.30 Supported

APPLE HDD HTS545050A7E362:

Capacity: 500.11 GB (500,107,862,016 bytes)

Model: APPLE HDD HTS545050A7E362

Revision: GG2AB990

Serial Number: TNS5193T3DS07H

Native Command Queuing: Yes

Queue Depth: 32

Removable Media: No

Detachable Drive: No

BSD Name: disk0

Rotational Rate: 5400

Medium Type: Rotational

Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)

S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified

Volumes:

EFI:

Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)

File System: MS-DOS FAT32

BSD Name: disk0s1

Content: EFI

Volume UUID: BDC1974F-6B8C-3DAE-9DB2-3AA3C17BF506

UFI Hard Drive:

Capacity: 499.25 GB (499,248,103,424 bytes)

Available: 310.83 GB (310,831,108,096 bytes)

Writable: Yes

File System: Journaled HFS+

BSD Name: disk0s2

Mount Point: /

Content: Apple_HFS

Volume UUID: 84B395ED-6163-3197-9342-8B81428ADECE

Recovery HD:

Capacity: 650 MB (650,002,432 bytes)

File System: Journaled HFS+

BSD Name: disk0s3

Content: Apple_Boot

Volume UUID: 0FDC8C26-109B-3A85-9B0E-973BA7F4EF3C

Storage:

UF-MEDIA-006:

Available: 1.96 TB (1,962,052,780,032 bytes)

Capacity: 2 TB (2,000,398,929,920 bytes)

Mount Point: /Volumes/UF-MEDIA-006

File System: Journaled HFS+

Writable: Yes

Ignore Ownership: Yes

BSD Name: disk1s1

Volume UUID: 4FCEC94C-A258-35D5-9384-9FDA0ABE3D2E

Physical Drive:

Device Name: P9227 Slim

Media Name: LaCie P9227 Slim Media

Protocol: USB

Internal: No

Partition Map Type: MBR (Master Boot Record)

Installed Audio Software:

Pro Tools First:

Version: 18.7.0.201

Obtained from: Identified Developer

Last Modified: 8/3/18, 6:40 PM

Kind: Intel

64-Bit (Intel): Yes

Signed by: Developer ID Application: Avid Technology Inc (4UYUA773XD), Developer ID Certification Authority, Apple Root CA

Location: /Applications/Pro Tools First.app

Creative Cloud Desktop App:

Version: 4.6.0.384

Obtained from: Identified Developer

Last Modified: 8/3/18, 10:04 PM

Kind: Intel

64-Bit (Intel): Yes

Signed by: Developer ID Application: Adobe Systems, Inc. (JQ525L2MZD), Developer ID Certification Authority, Apple Root CA

Location: /Applications/Utilities/Adobe Creative Cloud/Utils/Creative Cloud Desktop App.app

Adobe Creative Suite.

Adobe Audition. Build 11.10.0.184

Punch And RollVersion 1.22.3.

Adobe Acrobat Pro

Architecture: x86_64

Build: 18.11.20055.290043

AGM: 4.30.78

CoolType: 5.14.5

JP2K: 1.2.2.41223

This topic has been closed for replies.

unauthorizedrobAuthor

Inspiring

Where I went wrong - first.

Compounding a stupid error by applying the same bad effects automatically to every export.

The foul deed, exposed:

unauthorized

Inspiring

I am replying to my own question, as a help to anybody who has this problem. With a lot of help, I figured it out. I had attached some badly set eq effects and volume settings to EVERY file (52 chapters). For various reasons, I had to bump to new track before exporting to file — and the effects got cooked in.

I am lucky to have pristine tracks from initial sessions, and I can remove the bad effects and re-bounce, export to 32 bit FP files.

Take caution: pit of vipers!

Rob

ryclark

Participating Frequently

Practice (and experience) makes perfect.

unauthorizedrobAuthor

Inspiring

That, honestly, is not helpful. There is nothing perfect about what I have

experienced, and I do not require platitudes.

SteveG_AudioMasters_

Community Expert

If you've stuck with 32-bit recording and processing, then all you have to do is reduce the level.

The reason that there's a level change is because of what happens with Pan laws (it's explained elsewhere on the forum in several places) but in reality, if you stick with 32-bit Floating Point processing (the default), then you can easily correct the level difference without any loss, distortion or anything. Because the audio signal is stored in a different way, the concept of 'overload' basically doesn't exist in terms of your files. It only works on 'virtual' signals, so if you present one to your sound device, then yes it will appear to overload it - it's a real-world device, after all. But as I said, reducing the level so that nothing goes over 0dB will fix this immediately.

Interestingly, you said that the level jumps up - most people get this jumping down! What do you have the master fader set to when you do your mixdown?

unauthorizedrobAuthor

Inspiring

SteveG(AudioMasters) wrote
If you've stuck with 32-bit recording and processing, then all you have to do is reduce the level.
...
Interestingly, you said that the level jumps up - most people get this jumping down! What do you have the master fader set to when you do your mixdown?

Hi Steve

Thanks for the quick response!

I don't actually do a mixdown -- because these are just voice narration, there is nothing to mix down. I just have the one track, made up of all the individual clips from the recording session, which is what I bounce to a new complete track, then export to a WAV file that I then edit, clean up, etc. That's where I think the distortion occurs.

I am following ACX (Audiobook) guidelines, which require 44.1KHZ, RMS between -18 and -23db, Peak Volume at -3, and "constant bit rate." I wasn't sure about the "floating" aspect to the 32-bit setting, so have set my template at 24. (I presume that I cannot change the bit rate once the file has been created in 24?).

ACX discourages eq, and I think that's where I went wrong. I have applied Adaptive Noise Reduction, and two eq panels, which I used to try and brighten the sound a bit. Being a novice, I think I set those wrong and introduced the distortion at that stage. I'm including screen grabs of the efx settings here.

I honestly do not know at what stage the program is applying the effects in the effects panel. I suspect it is when I open the bounced WAV file to do the editing, or when I save it. In either case, I'm screwed, because the levels are then baked into the WAV file that I have painstakingly cleaned up (removing all extraneous noises, cleaning up the noise floor, etc.). Distortion would also be embedded in the file too. To correct for distortion, I have to go back to the original session and start from scratch.

As for the Mixer -- the master fader (default output) is set to 0, but as I am not really mixing anything, I presume that has no effect. But since ACX insists on absolute consistency between chapters (files), I WAS thinking of putting all 52 chapters into a group of Multitrack sessions, setting all levels and any efx the same to achieve consistency, but haven't tried that yet.

You suggested reducing the level so that nothing goes over 0dB -- is that still an option for me? I did try that, but the distortion seems to be burned into the audio and is still there -- just quieter.

Thanks for all your generous help. A lot of people owe you a big debt of gratitude.

Rob

Rob Wilson

UnAuthorized Films

Audio Editing hardware/Software

Hardware Overview:

Model Name: iMac

Model Identifier: iMac14,4

Processor Name: Intel Core i5

Processor Speed: 1.4 GHz

Number of Processors: 1

Total Number of Cores: 2

L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB

L3 Cache: 3 MB

Memory: 8 GB

Boot ROM Version: IM144.0189.B00

SMC Version (system): 2.21f92

Serial Number (system): C02PC3LJFY0T

Hardware UUID: C20D7D89-56EB-59A6-B813-49158E1B037C

PreSonus AudioBox USB 96 Audio InterfaceTech Specs

Computer Connectivity:	USB
Form Factor:	Portable, Desktop
Simultaneous I/O:	2 x 2
Number of Preamps:	2
Phantom Power:	Yes
A/D Resolution:	24-bit/96kHz
Built In DSP/FX:	20 Native effect plug-ins
Analog Inputs:	2 x XLR-1/4" combo (mic/instrument)
Analog Outputs:	2 x 1/4" (main out)
Headphones:	1 x 1/4"
MIDI I/O:	In/Out
USB:	1 x Type B
Software:	Studio One 4 Artist DAW included
OS Requirements - Mac:	OS X 10.8.5 or later, Intel Core i3 or higher, 4GB RAM or more recommended
OS Requirements - PC:	Windows 7 SP1 64-bit or later, Intel Core i3 or higher, 8GB RAM or more recommended
Bus Powered:	Yes
Depth:	1.75"
Width:	5.5"
Height:	5.5"
Weight:	5 lbs.
Manufacturer Part Number:	AUDIOBOX USB 96

Intel 8 Series Chipset:

Vendor: Intel

Product: 8 Series Chipset

Link Speed: 6 Gigabit

Negotiated Link Speed: 3 Gigabit

Physical Interconnect: SATA

Description: AHCI Version 1.30 Supported

APPLE HDD HTS545050A7E362:

Capacity: 500.11 GB (500,107,862,016 bytes)

Model: APPLE HDD HTS545050A7E362

Revision: GG2AB990

Serial Number: TNS5193T3DS07H

Native Command Queuing: Yes

Queue Depth: 32

Removable Media: No

Detachable Drive: No

BSD Name: disk0

Rotational Rate: 5400

Medium Type: Rotational

Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)

S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified

Volumes:

EFI:

Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)

File System: MS-DOS FAT32

BSD Name: disk0s1

Content: EFI

Volume UUID: BDC1974F-6B8C-3DAE-9DB2-3AA3C17BF506

UFI Hard Drive:

Capacity: 499.25 GB (499,248,103,424 bytes)

Available: 310.83 GB (310,831,108,096 bytes)

Writable: Yes

File System: Journaled HFS+

BSD Name: disk0s2

Mount Point: /

Content: Apple_HFS

Volume UUID: 84B395ED-6163-3197-9342-8B81428ADECE

Recovery HD:

Capacity: 650 MB (650,002,432 bytes)

File System: Journaled HFS+

BSD Name: disk0s3

Content: Apple_Boot

Volume UUID: 0FDC8C26-109B-3A85-9B0E-973BA7F4EF3C

Storage:

UF-MEDIA-006:

Available: 1.96 TB (1,962,052,780,032 bytes)

Capacity: 2 TB (2,000,398,929,920 bytes)

Mount Point: /Volumes/UF-MEDIA-006

File System: Journaled HFS+

Writable: Yes

Ignore Ownership: Yes

BSD Name: disk1s1

Volume UUID: 4FCEC94C-A258-35D5-9384-9FDA0ABE3D2E

Physical Drive:

Device Name: P9227 Slim

Media Name: LaCie P9227 Slim Media

Protocol: USB

Internal: No

Partition Map Type: MBR (Master Boot Record)

Installed Audio Software:

Pro Tools First:

Version: 18.7.0.201

Obtained from: Identified Developer

Last Modified: 8/3/18, 6:40 PM

Kind: Intel

64-Bit (Intel): Yes

Signed by: Developer ID Application: Avid Technology Inc (4UYUA773XD), Developer ID Certification Authority, Apple Root CA

Location: /Applications/Pro Tools First.app

Creative Cloud Desktop App:

Version: 4.6.0.384

Obtained from: Identified Developer

Last Modified: 8/3/18, 10:04 PM

Kind: Intel

64-Bit (Intel): Yes

Signed by: Developer ID Application: Adobe Systems, Inc. (JQ525L2MZD), Developer ID Certification Authority, Apple Root CA

Location: /Applications/Utilities/Adobe Creative Cloud/Utils/Creative Cloud Desktop App.app

Adobe Creative Suite.

Adobe Audition. Build 11.10.0.184

Punch And RollVersion 1.22.3.

Adobe Acrobat Pro

Architecture: x86_64

Build: 18.11.20055.290043

AGM: 4.30.78

CoolType: 5.14.5

JP2K: 1.2.2.41223

SteveG_AudioMasters_

Community Expert

Steve

Thank you thank you thank you, for responding at all. I am answering at length because I can’t sleep anyway, and maybe this honesty will help others.

I agree, after listening to some of those earliest sessions, (the bounced, exported WAVE originals), that I need to go back that far. I will Just Do It.

Why the tracks had to be bounced was because because I worked in multitrack as a prerequisite of the Travis Baldree Punch&Roll extension(*) which meant the record track needed to be track one of a Multitrack session. I just labeled that “Chapters,” and did not properly setup where all the recorded files were labeled, or stored. As I reopened each session, I got gut wrenching error alerts like “252 of the 785 files in use during this session are missing.”

These files were scattered everywhere. Somehow, over a period of weeks, I managed to reassemble the sessions’ source fils, piecemealing the Waveform tracks back together by reconstructing each one manually. By then, I was already deep in the cascade.

But I had coherent, complete original recorded Wave Files.

The next tumble was, for some reason, these cobbled-together Wave files, with their individual files back in the same order as our Punch&Roll recording, would not export. I only got truncated outputs of the first take, which terminated with a mistake, a curse and a cough.

I consulted with Adobe Mumbai, and the guy was great — actually treated my struggle as his own. He was the one who came up with the idea of bouncing those disjointed WAve Tracks to a new bounce track, then relabeling it as the original chapter as recorded. That worked. In a few days I had a nice, neat folder of all 52 chapters.

I was at least smart enough to back those up in 3 places. I worked on a set of copies-to-process. Those are the ones I labored over, noise reduction, adaptive noise reduction, notch-filtering hundreds of sibilant whistles, manually inserting silence in virtually every place I heard breaths or mouth clicks. Weeks of work.

Somewhere in there my beloved cat had to be put down; worst day of my life.

And the cascade continued. When each chapter was “done,” which included the aforementioned tone-deaf use of eq — I made the mistake of saving all those changes. I had read “Save Save Save,” so i did. The Audition program saved them back on top of themselves. That meant, I realized in a nauseating moment, that now those pristine originals were ruined. All my manual fixes were useless, because the actual audio had been corrupted. As one commenter here said “Once the sugar is baked into the cake, you can’t get it out.”

So here I am. Started this two-week project in July. It was due in August. I’m almost destitute, not sleeping, and yet still confronted with this duty. I never quit, but boy do I complicate.

It will be light soon here in L.A., and the computer is smirking in the dark. I think my task, if I understand you, is to reassemble — from a clean set of originals — all the complete, unsullied chapters, mixdown to 32-bit FP, then export those as Wave files, bite the bullet, and start all over cleaning them up.

Conservatively.

I am then going to take them over to my good friend at Forensic Audio, Kent Gibson, a veteran sound designer with ProTools, and let him check my work.

What about following the wacky Mr. Jerry Banfield’s procedure for meeting the ACX RMS Standards in YouTube? Once these files are clean, they need to fit that submission requirement — which I did with the Banfield method — but is there a more safe and sane way to do that? The post-Jerry files do sound loud.

Now that you realize you’ve got a damaged mind listening to your every word — can you confirm my plan? Any advice, couched in that soothing, child-voice of a pediatric therapist, would be very welcome in this uncertain dawn.

Thanks so Much

Rob

unauthorized wrote

The next tumble was, for some reason, these cobbled-together Wave files, with their individual files back in the same order as our Punch&Roll recording, would not export. I only got truncated outputs of the first take, which terminated with a mistake, a curse and a cough.
I consulted with Adobe Mumbai, and the guy was great — actually treated my struggle as his own. He was the one who came up with the idea of bouncing those disjointed WAve Tracks to a new bounce track, then relabeling it as the original chapter as recorded. That worked. In a few days I had a nice, neat folder of all 52 chapters.

One thing I'll do shortly is install Travis Baldree's extension and see if I can discover why exporting is so difficult. In case of difficulty, he's relatively easy to contact.

As for making tracks fit the now-outdated ACX submission guidelines (have they never heard of LUFS?), I don't think that will be particularly difficult. Having looked at the Banfield tutorial, I suggest that you ignore it - it's almost toxic, and has probably been the cause of at least some of your difficulties. I'll see if I can come up with something better, which is actually based on the reality of what you need to do. Roughly it goes like this; make sure that the files exceed the noise floor requirements, and then sort out the levels. The most I would think you'll need to do is limit the peaks and then sort the overall level out so that it meets the RMS value requirements.

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