Why does the Waveform Editor mp3 have better playback/quality than the Mixdown Editor.

[jenniek1138722]

Been searching for an answer on this for a while.

I import an mp3 to my Multi-track Mixdown session. When I double click the file and listen to it in the Waveform editor, the audio quality is significantly better and cleaner. Imported audio file has no effects or changes on it. The multitrack session is 44.1 and 32 bit.

Wondering if there is anything I am doing wrong on my end or if there is a setting I am missing.

[Bob Howes]

The playback quality should be identical unless you apply some effects in the Multitrack view.

I'd double check the both the Track Effects Rack and Clip Effects Rack to make sure you don't have something accidentally left on and altering your audio.  Also check the same thing on the mixer panel since effects can be applied there.

Other than that, it's incredibly easy to perceive a difference in level as a change in quality.  Make sure that the Multitrack View isn't turned up or down.  This can happen on the "knobs" in the editor panel at the left end of each track, with the volume envelopes or with the faders on the mixer.

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

Bob's correct - there's no actual difference at all, other than potentially a level change. I record classical music, and I use a very revealing pair of monitors in an acoustically treated room to edit in, and believe me, if there was any difference at all, I would have noticed it.

But, you do need to be careful with the settings. For instance, by default, Multitrack playback will be 3dB quieter than Waveform playback, simply because of the default for the pan law setting. But with no effects, the track fader at zero, all the pan controls set to 0 and the master fader set to +3dB (to compensate for the pan law) and routed to the same physical output as Waveform, playback will be identical.

[jenniek1138722]

So I opened up my mixdown and the track effects and clip effects were both blank as well as the original file (in the waveform editor) and on the Mixer Panel.

I looked into what Steve said. I am just using (not the top of the line but still pretty decent) headphones for my mixes so I know it is not the best scenario but there is a difference. I did a +3dB for the master track and checked all of my faders to be zero. Still the quality when I view the track in the waveform editor is cleaner than the multitrack view.

I am going to keep playing around with my files and see if I can find what it might be.

Thanks for the quick responses

[Bob Howes]

I just noticed that you used the word "mixdown" rather than simply listening to your track (unmixed) in multitrack view.

If this is the case, a couple more things to check.

First, look at the various menus and make sure you aren't accidentally saving in some less-than-perfect format.

Second, if by any chance you're importing an MP3, editing/mixing it, then saving it back to MP3 again, it WILL sound not as good.  As you've already said, Audition converts to a 32 bit floating point wave file for editing/mixing.  If you mixdown and save to wave then it should sound identical to what you heard while mixing.  However, if you save to MP3, your audio goes through another MP3 codec and the errors/degradation of MP3 are cumulative.  Each re-encoding loses a bit more information.

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

Bob Howes wrote:

However, if you save to MP3, your audio goes through another MP3 codec and the errors/degradation of MP3 are cumulative. Each re-encoding loses a bit more information.

Which might make you wonder what the point of MP3 is... and the answer to that is that it is only ever intended to be a distribution format - you encode to it just the once. All production should take place using an uncompressed format. If you start out with an MP3, you're shafted from the outset as far as quality is concerned, I'm afraid, especially if it's one of the 'cooking' rates like 128k.

Oh, and if you listen to the results on a halfway decent pair of headphones, you are going to hear more of the degradation!

[jenniek1138722]

Bob,

I apologize for any confusion. I want to make sure I am using my terms correctly so I am going to try and correctly describe where I am having my troubles at.

I open up Audition. I click New MultiTrack Session. I click and drag (from a folder I have on Finder) the .mp3's that I want to use in my mix and drop them into the Files Panel. From there I drag a specific .mp3 from the Files Panel and place it into the MultiTrack Session. I continue to place songs so that I can mix them together and beat match them and so on.

Here is where I am thinking some extra degradation is happening...maybe >>>

Once I play around with enough songs (say I have 5 songs that get mixed together) I will attempt to save it as a .sesx file and it tells me some of the imported .mp3s have been altered and if I wanted to save it in another folder (the altering of the .mp3's is from me reducing gain so that there is less clipping but that is typically done in the Multitrack view rather than the Waveform view). I do so.

Trying to see if the previous paragraph could be the issue (saving an .mp3 and as new .mp3 thus creating more degradation) I relink the specific /mp3 file in the Multitrack view with the original file (no edited/no gain changes/ no nothing). I listen to the track in the Multitrack view, sounds okay, I double click on the track which brings it to me in the Waveform editor and I play the same part of the track and it is much cleaner sounding. (note: I have added the +3 gain on the master track and checked all of the gain levels and track/clip effects).

If it is any consolation, when I listen to a track in the Multitrack view, it sounds like it is coming out my left headphone more than the right but in the Waveform editor there is an even balance and I cannot tell the .mp3 is coming from one side more than the other. I have checked the pan settings and it is set at 0  so there shouldn't be any panning. I even listen to the original song in itunes to make sure its not me or the headphones and there is no issue. It seems like the issue and degradation is in the Multitrack view.

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

chanceb1138722 wrote:

If it is any consolation, when I listen to a track in the Multitrack view, it sounds like it is coming out my left headphone more than the right but in the Waveform editor there is an even balance and I cannot tell the .mp3 is coming from one side more than the other. I have checked the pan settings and it is set at 0 so there shouldn't be any panning. I even listen to the original song in itunes to make sure its not me or the headphones and there is no issue. It seems like the issue and degradation is in the Multitrack view.

If it seems unbalanced, then there's something not right about the way you've set the mixer up. You need to open up the actual mixer panel to check all the settings - you can't rely on just the track controls.

[ryclark]

Actually once you have dragged an .mp3 file into the file view it is no longer an .mp3. As soon as you place on a track in Audition or open it in Waveform view it becomes a .wav file. So when you save the .sesx session file with Audition telling you that files have changed and you save them to another folder they should always be .wav files in that folder. Otherwise they will degrade in quality each time you open and close the session if the files get saved as mp3..

[jenniek1138722 · Accepted solution]

So, long story short, when I started my new .sesx file (File > New Multitrack Session) I chose "Empty Stereo Session" rather than "24 Track Session".

When I imported files into that, and listened to them from the Multitrack Editor vs the Waveform Editor and they sounded exactly the same (previously, the audio quality was lower in the Multitrack Editor).

Just for an FYI if anyone else has this issue