P: ICC Table Profiles clipped shadows under OSX

[Max_Ramuschi]

Hi, I've just found a really bad issue occurring in Lr 5 (but also in all other Lightroom versions) under Mac OSX 10.9 with a calibrated monitor: dark shadows (from a value of 20 to 0) are all clipped (pure black with no detail and no textures) while the histogram remains ok, indicating NO clipped shadows at all. This issue afflics also ACR.

Photoshop for now is the only software under MAC that reproduces dark shadows correctly: Library Module shows a bit darker and shifted shadows than Ps but acceptable, Develop Module is really bad showing brutally clipped shadows (but you work in the Develop Module right?!).

The same problem occurred also in OSX 10.8 but it was related only to LUT profiles, creating a Matrix based profile problems were solved.

Now the issue occurs with both Matrix and LUT profiles, v2 and v4. There's no apparent way to make Lr working right.

Under Windows no problems at all: Bridge, Photoshop, ACR, Lr (Library Module and Develop Module) show the same correct NOT clipped shadows.

I tested 8 different Mac running 10.9 with different GPU, different monitors, different profiling Softwares (Color Eyes Display Pro, Eizo Color Navigator, BasICC Color, i1 Profiler). Same results.
I tried to change the gamma value (2.2, sRGB, L*) problems remain. I tried to change ICC version (v2, v4) problems reamain. I tried to change profile type (LUT, MATRIX) problems remain.

How can a photographer work professionally on RAW images if shadows are bad reproduced?

Why Photoshop can reproduce shadows correctly while Lr isn't able to do that?

Why this happens only on a Mac enviroment?

Is Lr based on ColorSync (that can't handle profiles correctly) while Ps isn't (because it can handle and it has no problem)?

Please Adobe, FIX IT for all professional photographers, we can’t use Lr for serious works under Mac.

Max Ramuschi
Adobe Certified Expert

p.s.: Added a 100% Crop screenshots that shows the problem, some photos are even worse...

[nesys75]

Hi All,

I've also the same issue, Mavericks 10.9.5 / Lr 5.6.

Any chance to have Adobe more involved on this? I suspect the normal behavior doesn't include Library and Develop Modules with these differences in terms of shadows management. If it's matter of pointing to the right routines, I think this is something Adobe can fix without any support by Apple. Am I wrong?

Chris, any chance to have this fixed?

Thank you
Andrea

[nesys75]

Chris,

I appreciate you have removed my second post because it was referring to this issue.

The problem is: we are asking for support, and no one seems picking up.
What does "official representative" exactly mean? Because if you are the SPOC of this issue, at least a simple "we are investigating, we will let you know soon" would be great.

Of course, I appreciate any kind of support you will be able to provide.

Thank you
Andrea

[nesys75]

Any chance to have at least an answer by Adobe? It seems they love the approach "best answer is silence".

Never seen such support, frankly speaking. Really frustrating.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I don't work on LightRoom, I just asked a few questions to clarify the nature of the problem.

[nesys75]

Thank you for your reply, Chris.

Do you get to know someone working on Lightroom, or in the Adobe development team?

I think this is something to have some Lr Engineer aware of.

Thanks again

[Max_Ramuschi]

Engineers are aware of this since Lightroom 5.2. The issue is easly reproducible, but nothing has been done.

[Max_Ramuschi]

I think this is a major issue though few people noticed it.

But can you imagine a landscape photographer who takes a lot of nightscapes with a great amount of shadows and bare visible details? 50% of the photo will change from Library to Develop to Ps. Not a consistent and professional workflow at all.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Today Mac OS X Yosemite has been released. And the problems are still here: clipped shadows. For commercial images I'm using Capture One now, because my clients have high demands and shadow areas must be absolutely perfect (well controlled).
Switching on the soft proofing is too much hassle for me, so Capture One does the job with consistent shadows.
I hope Lightroom 5.7 or 6 will fix the issue, so I can also use Lightroom for my commercial work again.

[Kelly Castro]

I apologize for the slow response to this thread. We had an open bug on this, but it was closed as a third party compatibility issue that was reportedly fixed with the release of 10.9.2. I will reopen the bug and try to get some answers for those of you still experiencing the problem.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Thank you Kelly.

[Jao vdL]

Good to hear it is open again. It was never fixed but for a while appeared to be an apple bug but it is now getting clear that it is a Lightroom bug that only gets triggered in Macericks and Yosemite. Apple fixed it in their own apps but Lightroom never got it right. Every other app except Safari is doing shadows right now.

[Max_Ramuschi]

Hi kelly castro, I updated the bugs I noticed on Yosemite and Mavericks, so please read my last post. Thanks for your interest.

[nesys75]

Thank you Kelly, I really appreciate your help.

[Max_Ramuschi]

Just to summarize and update the bugs list with Adobe products on OSX (Mavericks 10.9 and Yosemite 10.10):

- With Matrix Based Profiles: Lightroom shadows are bad (darker, clipped with no details in Develop Module), Camera RAW and OSX (Preview) are ok.

- With LUT Based Profiles (which are a reference point for professional users with pro displays): Lightroom shadows are worse (even darker and clipped in both Library and Develop), Camera RAW and OSX are bad (yes you've read right, the bad and clipped shadows issue occurs in Camera RAW too with LUT profiles and even OSX didn't fix the support for them).

- On OSX, Photoshop is always right, perfect with both profiles.

- On Windows, Lightroom and Photoshop are right, perfect with both profiles.

Please focus on the LUT Profiles support as these are profiles that professionists normally use. (Eizo pro monitors perform way better with these kind of profiles for example).

Tip: to see clearly the bug, calibrate your display with gamma 2.2 (which is the standard).

You can download this image as a test image here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/e6sldv4l4s5..., but you can also use every image with a big dark shadows zone.

Massimiliano Ramuschi
Adobe Certified Expert Photoshop

[MadManChan2000]

Massimiliano, Jao, and others experiencing this problem: Can you please send me your ICC display profiles? You can contact me at madmanchan@gmail.com. I'm assuming these are small enough to send by email, but you can also use a standard file transfer service if not.

Yes, I can use my own matrix-based and LUT-based ICC profiles for development and testing, but it's always better to have the customers' profiles as well for our further verification.

Thanks,
Eric

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Done! Thanks! 🙂

[Jao vdL]

Same here. Glad to see you looking into it. It really doesn't matter at all what kind of profile you use. Every single Mavericks and Yosemite machine I tested has this problem regardless of the calibration device/settings used and this even happens with the built-in Apple profiles.

[Max_Ramuschi]

Done.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

If LR is using the GPU for color management, then you probably also need information on the GPU in the system -- because we have seen precision problems with some GPU models and driver versions.

[Max_Ramuschi]

Does Lr use GPU? I found the issue on every recent mac with every GPU (Intel HD 4000, Iris, Geforce, Radeon). Though I don't think it's a GPU related issue, I sent my GPU info.

[Max_Ramuschi]

I noticed precision problems related to certain GPUs in Photoshop color management. But I also noticed (in my case and few other) that if you set GPU to Basic in the performance tab will fix every issue. Can you confirm that?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Yes, that's the GPU precision problem I was referring to. Some claim to be accurate to a certain number of bits, but aren't really. We're still trying to figure out which is which and disable them for tasks that really need the stated precision.

[Jao vdL]

Chris, this is a problem in Lightroom. Photoshop is basically correct in all cases no matter how you set its preferences safe perhaps a small 1-bit error that you should only be able to spot in a smooth color ramp. The problem in Lightroom Develop is MUCH larger than a small precision error. There is no performance tab in Lightroom and Lightroom doesn't use the GPU in the same way as Photoshop anyway.

[Max_Ramuschi]

The Intel HD 4000 has some problems: magenta shift in dark tones and bad transitions (banding) in shadows. Some Geforce have same issue even on Pc and, in my experience, Ati Fire Pro are ok...

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Jao - I know, but Lightroom has been trying to use the GPU to accelerate display, and I suspected that Eric might need a bit more info.