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P: Noise artifacts produced by enhance details

Explorer ,
Feb 20, 2022 Feb 20, 2022

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The enhance details feature appears to produce some rectangular and square noise artifacts in the processed image. My baseline is a daylight RAW landscape (call it X1) photograph taken at ISO 100. The artifacts appear in the upper half of the photo (a partly cloudy region above a mountain range).

 

Lightroom Version: 11.2

OS Version: Windows 10 Pro, Build 19044.1526

 

The steps outlined below are intended to illustrate the difference in images produced by Lightroom's baseline demosaicing algorithm with the "enhance details" demosaicing algorithm. Of course, the artifacts could be due to issues with the baseline algorithm ... but I doubt this is the case as it has been fielded for quite some time.

 

The TIFF comparison process (steps 11-19) has been successfully used to evaluate Lightroom sharpening and noise reduction combinations. Other than the "enhance details" DNG, I have not seen similar artifacts produced by Lightroom.

 

Steps to reproduce the are as follows:

1) Import X1 (RAW) into Lightroom

2) Reset all settings (note, the baseline profile is Adobe Color and WB is "as shot")

3) Disable "Detail" sharpening and noise reduction by moving all sliders to 0 (i.e., Amount, Luminance, Color; note, lens corrections are not selected - the goal is export an image processed by only the baseline demosaicing algorithm)

4) Export this file as "X1_Norm_NoSharpNoNR.tif" (300 ppi, sRGB, 16 bits/component)

5) Enhance details (Raw Details only)

6) Open the DNG produced by enhanced details

7) Reset all settings

8) Disable "Detail" sharpening and noise reduction by moving all sliders to 0 (i.e., Amount, Luminance, Color)

9) Export this file as "X1_Enha_NoSharpNoNR.tif" (300 ppi, sRGB, 16 bits/component)

10) Exit Lightroom

11) Start Photoshop

12) Open files produced by steps 4 and 9 in Photoshop

13) Convert both images to grayscale using Image/Mode 

14) Convert both images to Smart Objects 

15) Duplicate one of the layers and place in other other image as Layer 1

16) Select both layers with the "Difference" option

17) Select Layer/New Adjustment Layer/Threshold

18) Set threshold to 1

19) Adjust view to actual size and 100% to see artifacts

 

I converted the TIFF file produced by steps 1-18 to a low-resolution JPEG and attached to this post. 

DSC1801_LR_Norm_Enha_NoSharpNoNR_diff1.jpg

 

 

 

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Adobe Employee , Mar 15, 2022 Mar 15, 2022

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Explorer ,
Feb 20, 2022 Feb 20, 2022

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Similar (if not identical) artifacts are produced when using enhance detail through Photoshop (Camera Raw). Upon closer inspection, the artifacts are better described as a boundary issue (perhaps the demosaicing algorithm is processing defined regions of the photograph without accounting for boundary issues?). I attached a cropped view of the TIFF file used to generate the  JPEG in my first post.DSC1801_LR_Norm_Enha_NoSharpNoNR_diff1_cropped.jpg

 

 

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Explorer ,
Mar 06, 2022 Mar 06, 2022

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Adobe Support Community staff asked for a higher ISO example. This is a cropped version of enhance details artifacts for a night sky photograph taken at ISO 1250. ISO_1250_example.png

 

 

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Explorer ,
Mar 15, 2022 Mar 15, 2022

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The attached difference image further illustrates the "boundary artifacts issue" first described in my Feb. 20, 2022 post "Noise artifacts produced by enhance details" and subsequent replies (includes additional information requested by Adobe). However, I have not received any public acknowledgement that Adobe is investigating this issue.

 

Lightroom Version: 11.2 (Camera Raw 14.2)

OS Version: Windows 10 Pro, Build 19044.1526

 

I attached a low-resolution jpeg of the color image. In the difference image, note the visible boundaries above and below the leaf (note, the leaf shown in the difference image is immediately above the main leaf, to the left of the stem). The visible boundaries could be associated with defined "patches" of pixels processed by the convolutional neural network algorithm.

 

The steps used to generate the difference image are copied from my Feb. 20th post:

 

1) Import X1 (RAW) into Lightroom

2) Reset all settings (note, the baseline profile is Adobe Color and WB is "as shot")

3) Disable "Detail" sharpening and noise reduction by moving all sliders to 0 (i.e., Amount, Luminance, Color; note, lens corrections are not selected - the goal is export an image processed by only the baseline demosaicing algorithm)

4) Export this file as "X1_Norm_NoSharpNoNR.tif" (300 ppi, sRGB, 16 bits/component)

5) Enhance details (Raw Details only)

6) Open the DNG produced by enhanced details

7) Reset all settings

8) Disable "Detail" sharpening and noise reduction by moving all sliders to 0 (i.e., Amount, Luminance, Color)

9) Export this file as "X1_Enha_NoSharpNoNR.tif" (300 ppi, sRGB, 16 bits/component)

10) Exit Lightroom

11) Start Photoshop

12) Open files produced by steps 4 and 9 in Photoshop

13) Convert both images to grayscale using Image/Mode

14) Convert both images to Smart Objects

15) Duplicate one of the layers and place in other other image as Layer 1

16) Select both layers with the "Difference" option

17) Select Layer/New Adjustment Layer/Threshold

18) Set threshold to 1

19) Adjust view to actual size and 100% to see artifacts

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Adobe Employee ,
Mar 15, 2022 Mar 15, 2022

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Setting status

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products
Status Investigating

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 17, 2022 Dec 17, 2022

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Hi,

Just recently noticed that the Raw Details to dng coversion is generating large blocks in image. Noticeable in  less detailed areas like sky. See the blocks either side of mountain and around rest of sky below.  Not seen this before (deliberately turned up contrast for this jpg, so can see blocks more easily). More visible in less saturated areas or B&W develop settings. Note they are distinct blocks rather than general banding. If apply same develop settings to the original RAF file the blocks not seen. So RAW Details seems to be causing it.  The blocks also export in the jpg image. Tried disabling GPU and checked other basic settings, cleared cache, etc   Also the blocks appear in the dng, sent to PS.  Looked at older images and dngs cant see same problem.

Anyone else seen this effect?

Fuji XT30 mk1, Core i7, LR 12.0.1, Windows 11 latest

 

_NFF2562-Enhanced-2.jpg

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 17, 2022 Dec 17, 2022

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Just looked at image with Sharpening; Alt_Masking. Can see Block edges and bands....Untitled-1.jpg

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LEGEND ,
Dec 17, 2022 Dec 17, 2022

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Do you see this in Develop module at 1:1 zoom? 

Can you upload a sample raw to something like Dropbox so the raw itself can be analyzed in RawDigger? 

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 17, 2022 Dec 17, 2022

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Yes, seen at any zoom level. And appears on exported jpg.  Not seen at all in the orginal RAF with same develop.  Getting effect on several images with similar uncrowded sky.  Probably there in more detailed areas but lost in that detail.  Ah, cant attach a .zip as not supported by this file upload. Will sort a MyCloud share later.....

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 18, 2022 Dec 18, 2022

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After chatting with Adobe Tech support they have rasied a case and investigating. 

They asked me to try the same RAFs conversion on a different pc and older LR version (11.5) and the banding/blocks didnt appear.  Loaded 12.1 and they appeared.

 

Will update when get results of thier investigation......

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 19, 2023 Jan 19, 2023

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After a few weeks investigation, and supply of example images, the Adobe 2nd level tech support confirmed to me today by phone that they have investigated this problem and is an issue/bug with the software. They stated that a fix would be in the next version of lightroom, due for release by end of the month.

Phew - at least its not my camera or PC 🙂

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 21, 2023 Feb 21, 2023

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As per my last update, this was acknowledged in January as a software issue.  Tech Support said would be fixed in the next February update.  However just loading v12.2 and problem is still there (might be my imagination but also appears worse). Chatted with Tech Support yesterday and they confirmed it had not been fixed in latest update.  They could not give me any indication of timescale for the fix 😞  So RAW Details will be a No No for Trans IV Fuji users for time being. This is a shame as RAW Details was created primarily to render Fuji sensors better.  Will have to use another editor for time being 😞 and then reconsider my subscription if fix doesnt appear very soon.

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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 21, 2023 Feb 21, 2023

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I am not certain about the information you've been provided. I've been unable to locate any bug in our system related to this issue. Can you provide your case number? Names of the person you spoke to? 

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 27, 2023 Feb 27, 2023

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Hi,

Seems to have been split between 2.

ADB-27310325-T0H0
ADB-28174350-J2Z3

Had several online chats, then two remote phone seesions. You took the files to investigate. Then told in Jan, fix would go in Feb update. But anither chat last week confirmed it had not yet been included and could gibe no indication as to when as the 2nd line support did not have view of fix schedule. They apologised and put me through to accounts who have given me 2 months free, after which time hope will be fixed.

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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 27, 2023 Feb 27, 2023

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Thank you for the case numbers. I've forwarded them to Support to investigate. 

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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Adobe Employee ,
Feb 27, 2023 Feb 27, 2023

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I've located the information about this issue and will be merging your post in to that thread. Thank you for the information. 

The information you were given by the first agent about the timing of a fix was wrong and normally advance information of fixes is not available until time of release. That was how I knew something was amiss...

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 31, 2023 Mar 31, 2023

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Hi,

Now these seperate reports merged into one, couldnt see how to reply to my original, so try here...

Any update on a fix for this problem?

If no then will have to contact Customer Support again to get a 3rd free month, else my payments will start again.

Cheers,

Nick

 

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Adobe Employee ,
Mar 31, 2023 Mar 31, 2023

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@NickFrancis21 
When an update is available it will be posted to this thread. 

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 20, 2023 Apr 20, 2023

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Hi,

Just loaded 12.3. Thought it might fix this bug, but not listed in the fixes.  However, saw there was a new RAW Details menu, to include the DeNoise. Ran the RAW through the original RAW-Details only and the blocks appear as before.  But then incuded the DeNoise (which must admit to an age to run, compared with the quick RAW-Details, Core i7+GPU, but thats another issue) and the blocks were not there. Well, at least from a first quick look.

So is the new Denoise code removing the blocks, or is the RAW-Details code that runs with DeNoise, different to the RAW-Details only code?

Is the RAW-Details Only going to be fixed also, for times when dont wan to run DeNoise?

Cheers.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 20, 2023 Apr 20, 2023

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Ah, update on my last comment!  The blocks are STILL there, just seem to have been reduced/"blurred"  a little with the DeNoise added as well, so not quite as noticeable in the colour image. If look at the Sharpening/At-Mask view the blocks appear a bit different and there is more "texture" in the background sky.

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Mentor ,
Apr 21, 2023 Apr 21, 2023

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Can confirm i see the blocks here too. This seems like a fairly significant issue that should have been fixed in the 14 months since it was originally reported. 

I've also bugged similar artifacts created by the Ps Neural Filters over the past year and a half.

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 02, 2023 Aug 02, 2023

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Hi,

Any news on the fix for this?

Its been nearly 10 months since I initially reported it and my case was raised, and 1.5 years since the original report it was merged with. An awfully long time when in Jan was told it would be in the Feb update. Ive been using Luminar AI instead, for actual processing, plus Adobe memebership have kindly paused my Monthly Plan Subscription since March.

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 02, 2023 Aug 02, 2023

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...and following on from my message just now,  Chat Help seem to not want to talk to me about it at all!  Thats the second time been rejected this afternoon 😕Screenshot 2023-08-02 162052.png

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Adobe Employee ,
Aug 02, 2023 Aug 02, 2023

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LATEST

nick@atozmedia.com 

This thread will be your first source of information regarding future fixes for this issue.  

When a fix is released, this thread will change from Investigating to Fixed. Information about unreleased products, features and fixes are not provided in advance of release. 

 

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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